This... This is where the fun begins. A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one...?
So... This little surprise greeted us unexpectedly at the Sony showcase, and as the resident Star Wars nerd, regularly waving around my "THE EXPANDED UNIVERSE IS TRUE CANON" picket sign into every SW discussion on my Discord servers, naturally I have some things to say about this. I feel almost obligated to share my thoughts on it, whether others are willing to hear it or not.
With that out of the way, let's DO IT.
A Remake should be just that... but also more
I basically want what FF7 Remake was for its fans, minus the plot ghost time travel shenanigans.
This seems to be what their going for anyway, give the whole "A Legend Reborn" tagline.
Let's not mince words here: Knights of the Old Republic may be a timeless classic, but it has many flaws due to the time it came out and the hardware limitations. A lot of it hasn't aged well. It shouldn't just be a carbon copy of the original script with shinier, next gen visuals. It should capitalize on what couldn't be explored before.
For example, to bring it back to FF7, when the reactor explodes, in the original you get some brief dialogue and a short cutscene showing what happens to the townspeople, but in the remake, you witness the aftermath yourself. The streets are on fire, you hear people coughing on the fumes, you hear people crying and lamenting about what they're going to do now, people who just moved in and suddenly lost their homes and jobs, and calling out for family members they still haven't found. You are thrust into the world, and you get to soak it all in. I want THAT for KotoR. More in-depth context to the events that happened in the original, with more emphasis on how those events and your actions impact the world around you.
I also want NO mention of future events. I doubt Disney wouln't be eager to dribble in their Baby Yodas or Reys, but I wouldn't be too nervous. Jedi Fallen Order had little, if any, involvement from Disney aside from a brief easter egg to Starkiller Base that didn't effect the central plot of the game. LucasArts is a separate company, and although Disney does umbrella over them it's like the difference between the MCU and the 616 universe comics. I think we're fine.
And outside of just Disney, please no Vitiate or any of the MMO stuff.
Mandalorian Wars Prelude
About 50% of what makes KotoR's lore so cool is everything that happens off-screen.
The Mandalorian Wars in a nutshell:
Throughout the duration of the two games, you are told through dialogue how the Mandalorian Wars were the RADDEST SHIT EVER, but your character, and by extension you, never get to see it. The game starts up pretty soon after it ends. The Mandalorian Wars is the most important plot point in the entirety of the Old Republic era (perhaps the entirety of Star Wars aside from the Battle of Yavin) and single most interesting historic event regarding both the Mandalorians and the Jedi, and you're only told about it second-hand or though hearsay. You completely miss out on it.
Now, I am usually vehemently against DLC or paywalls of any kind, it is inherently a greedy malicious tactic that hasn't gotten any less scummy over the years, we've just been conditioned to let it normalize. That being said, this is a situation where I would tolerate, even encourage it, because it's extra content that was not present in the original game. I essentially want big action set-pieces on the same grandiose and scale of the intro sequence to God of War 3. I want Revan rallying his/her troops as Basalisk War Droids drop out of the sky like flaming meteors while Mandos Halo-jump at re-entry velocity setting off explosive impacts as they land, then march menacingly towards the Jedi as the Mandalorian battle anthem Vode An plays in the background. I want to see Revan and Mandalore the Ultimate portayed as two tactical masterminds in opposition to each other. A want to see the slow burn approach of Revan's gradual turn to the dark side akin tho Anakin in the Clone Wars, at first a noble figure who confronts the Jedi on their inaction as sovereign planets burn, confronting Cassus Fett as he boils his own troops alive, and eventually to the cold and ruthless ruler who cuts off Malek's jaw for disobeying him. All this leads to the final confrontation at Malachor V, where Revan challenges Mandalore the Ultimate to single combat and wins then declares the war over before shattering the planet with the Mass Shadow Generator and turning the ships around back towards Republic-Controlled planets, now in oppostion to them.
Given large-scale battles on the level of GOW3 was two console generations ago, I really don't think this is too much to ask. It wouldn't have to be that long, maybe about 6-8 hours max, about the length of The Force Unleashed 2, a little appetizer compared to the 60+ hour full course meal of the full game. If they don't want to do this (they won't, this is probably just a pipe dream) it's fine, it'll just be a missed opportunity to explore this never-before seen (outside a few flashbacks in the comics) era in the Star Wars mythos, and to further flesh out the characters and provide additional context to the story. Heck, I'd settle for just an animated featurette or a comic that comes with the Collector's Edition or something, though I'd really prefer it to be playable.
More robust character creation
This one goes without saying. The original KotoR games only gave you about five male or female character models to choose from that were more detailed than the NPCs. If you choose a face that is used by another character, that character's face gets swapped out for a similar one to accommodate. Being able to fully and manually customize your character's features should be an obligation at this point. It's coming out on PS5, there's no excuse.
I also would like being able to choose from races other than human, such as Twi'leks, Duros, Zabrak etc, humanoid characters that can still fit into the clothing and armors while being different and diverse enough to immerse you into the Star Wars universe.
Fix the character interactions
That's right, it's time to address the Carth in the room.
A great deal of what people hate about Carth doesn't even have to do with his character, it's how it awkwardly clashes with the gameplay. There are moments where you are running towards the next quest and the game abrubtly stops and tells you to talk to Carth because "something seems to be bothering him". If you do this, Carth gets defensive and says he doesn't want to talk. This is a problem.
This is how I propose how to fix it: Don't change Carth's backstory at all. A grizzled war veteran who has trust issues is a believable character trait that can be interesting, but don't force the player to talk to him at scripted triggers. Instead, go with how Atton was handled in KotoR 2. Have him do or say things in the story that are a little strange or questionable, then have a new dialogue option pop up when you talk to him later and ask "Hey, what was that about?". Let the player learn the character's story at their own pace. Let the player do this for the rest of the cast as well. The only exceptions should be Bastila and HK-47, because Bastila's relationship with you is heavily story driven, and HK's story is based on your ability to fix his memory and the final unlock happens at a story-specific moment. The thing is that Carth's story actually leads to important character development for Revan by proxy, so it does lead to cool stuff, but it should never be forced, especially not in this way.
Carth has his own TV Tropes page and a chart showing who the Carth is in BioWare properties like Mass Effect for a reason, and this NEEDS to be addressed.
KotoR 2 Style Alignment System
KotoR 1 has a lot of binary black-and-white Light Side or Dark Side options that railroad you a bit in the story. KotoR 2 instead introduces a lot of gray areas for your character to choose, such as justifying killing a mob boss slaver versus just killing him for fun. This makes the story more immersive and fleshes out your character while improving the mechanics as it takes into account the intent and reasoning behind the actions, allowing for Chaotic, Lawful, and Neutral Good and Evil options rather than just binary good and evil. The result of your choice would then result in a "Net Force Shift", for example threatening someone with violence to protect a party member would give you some Light Side, but is still a Dark Side action, resulting in a Net Dark Side Shift.
The ending segment at Rikata Prime in KotoR 1 also railroads you pretty hard. Without spoiling you too much, there's a party member that leaves and joins the Dark Side, and you beat them and have to make a Light Side or Dark Side option. The Dark Side option locks you into having to kill off the good members of the party. This eliminates other options such as playing the Sith Code on the character and say "No, I'm calling the shots here" or sparing them because they can be useful later, or playing the long con only to backstab this character for the greater good. Alternatively, a completely neutral option where you just refuse to fight anyone and walk away. There was clear showings of time constraints that would benefit from an overhaul in this segment allowing more "grey area" options leading up to the ending.
There was also an "Influence" system in KotoR 2 that would allow you to affect the alignment of other characters. Seeing more Light Side or Dark Side variations of the characters based on your actions and inspiring and influencing them allows a lot of interesting alternatives in the story.
HK-47 Assassination Missions
In the original game, HK-47 was an assassination droid who's full capabilities could only be restored upon reaching a certain point in the story. He would promise that once his full assassination protocols were fully restored, he would independently carry out assassinations of targets of your choosing. This unfortunately never happens in the original game due to time and hardware constrains, and you can only take him for combat. What I would really like is for a full realization of that, similar to the bounty hunter missions in Lego Star Wars.
You can outfit HK with weapons and components before sending him off on his mission, which, ideally, would be similar to setting up your loadout before setting off on missions in MGS5. You can then either choose for him to automatically carry out his assassination or take control of him, disguising yourself as a protocol droid and carefully eliminating targets with stealth and precision...or just running in guns blazing. I don't expect them to do something like this, but again, they have no excuse.
Revan should stay mysterious
The Old Republic MMO made the egregious mistake of unmasking Revan and revealing what he looks and sounds like. This is a grievous misunderstanding of who the character is and what he/she represents. The whole idea behind Revan is that his/her story is a cautionary tale that your character is dangerously close to repeating, that's the primary conflict of the game. Giving Revan a face was the worst thing you could do for the character (Vitiate flipping the Crusty Doll Evil switch on them notwithstanding), as the idea behind him/her is that Revan can be anyone, hence why I keep using the pronouns interchangeably. That's right, Revan was always gender fluid. You Anti-LGBT trolls can stop screaming now.
Keep the d20 style turned-based combat
Going back to KotoR 1 is always refreshing because modern RPGs mostly seem to go the FF14 route in terms of combat, and while funnily enough modern RPGs tend to try to make everything different by being real-time and modernized, it sort of makes everything watered down and takes away a bit of the charm of what made the original games so memorable. It's a video game, there's no need to adhere to realism because you shouldn't be ashamed of it being a video game.
What made KotoR unique was that it's a Western RPG, many modern games of the genre are dominated by Japanese RPGs. KotoR's Western influence (aside from Star Wars being a Western franchise, obviously) is what set it apart, mainly with it's gameplay being based on Dungeons and Dragons, down to the attacks being damage rolls and using feats and character sheets. Going for a more modernized approach, I feel, would take away a part of its identity.
And that's mainly it. I admit I'm probably reaching for some of these, but I don't feel like I'm expecting too much for hoping at least three of these to come to fruition. I'll probably still enjoy it nonetheless. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to make a trip to the bank because this game is making me buy a PS5. You may have won this time, Sony...
I am Hero's Shade, and I'll see you all next time.
Welcome
back, everyone! I have once again returned from my slumber to grace you with a
battle of titanic proportions, a battle of world-eaters! This is a particular
matchup I find to be interesting in concept, as both combatants grow
increasingly stronger the more they consume. The outcome is dependent on the
rate and amount at which the fighters can devour, a unique concept I feel is
not explored enough in the VS debating scene, agourmet race, if you will.
Aberrations, cosmic horrors that
gnaw at the implicate fabric of reality itself merely by existing in it. In
Lovecraftian lore, the cosmic horrors were introduced in an order of hierarchy,
with each being more frightening and maddening than the last. The curtain and
illusion of comfort stripped away as each layer revealed the great truth of the
universe piece by piece, the truth that we are all a mere dream in the
slumbering eye of the Great One, a fleeting thought that will be forgotten and
cease to be as any dream would. There is an inherent dread present in all
sentient beings that all we perceive is meaningless, as we are an infinitesimal
speck adrift in a vast sea of darkness and cold, unfeeling matter. The history
of our civilization can be documented and counted, as opposed to the great
epochs of time, hundreds of billions of years that life existed on Earth alone,
not counting the incomprehensible measure of time of existence before life. Do
you measure your worth by your size or your mortality in comparison to the rest
of the universe? These world-eaters are the personification of that concept:
Darth Nihilus, the Lord of Hunger, and the Icon of Sin, Harbinger of the End
Times.
In case you
were wondering...
Star Wars and surprisingly Doom both
have vast expanded universes comprising of different layers of canon and
continuity. In the case of Nihilus, his main appearances are almost exclusively
in the Star Wars Expanded Universe, with references and blurbs here and there
in main canon novelizations and Disney canon movies. For the Icon, on the other
hand, he has appearances and abilities outside of the main continuity. For
fairness and simplicity sake, I will consider mainly the primary Doom games.
Though… even then that can get fuzzy and a bit daunting for newcomers of the
series considering there's a lot of dimension-hopping and time travel.
When I say Classic Doom, it refers
to Doom (1993) and Doom II. This, in canon, is what is known as the "First
Age". Doom 3 is a different dimension with a different Doom Marine, with
Doom 64 being the true third installment to Classic Doom. The current games,
Doom (2016) and Doom Eternal, take place in the Fourth Age, and are implied to
be a universe separate from Classic Doom, with Hell being a multidimensional
constant between all universes. In other words, all realms share a Hell, and it
can be used to travel to all dimensions in the Doom Multiverse.
In the Wolfenstien RPG, it is
revealed that Nazi anihillator BJ Blaskovitch is the great great grandfather of
Id Software mascot Commander Keen, who is the ancestor of the original Doom
Marine, and Blaskovitch fought a demon with the spear that pierced Jesus on the
cross, a demon that Doomguy later fights as the Cyberdemon. And lest we forgot
the Doom movie, where, contrary to popular belief, the Doom Marine is not
actually The Rock, Dwayne Johnson is actually a demon monster mutated by
Martian DNA and the real Doomguy was a guy named John Reaper. In Doom
Annihilation, Doomguy's Blaskovitch ancestry is kept in tact but is
unceremoniously killed off screen for no discernable reason other than to
artificially elevate the female protagonist. And in the Doom novels, Doomguy is
Flynn Taggart, who teams up with a Doomgirl as they go streaking and field
strip corpses in an effort to fight off the demons who are actually aliens
genetically modified by two warring intergalactic alien races known as the
Newbies and the Fred's. Oh, and in Doom Eternal the Doom Slayer has Doom 1 and
2 on his PC, meaning that Doom is IN Doom.
Did you get all that? Don't worry,
basically all you need to remember is that the Doomguy in Classic Doom is the
same character as the Doom Slayer in the new games, and Hell is shared between
all universes. (I just can't help but laugh at John Carmack's infamous quote
that story in a video game is like story in porn and isn't really that
important, considering he said that in regards to Doom which now has a
massively expansive multiverse of lore comparable to that of Elder Scrolls).
All that being said, the Icon of
Sin in the First Age is hinted at being a different entity as the Icon of the
Fourth Age, though Eternal refers to his return as a "resurrection", so I will consider it the same.
There was another thing I
wanted to address for this matchup. In the VS scene, the term "well-fed
Galactus" is used to describe Galactus and similar cosmic characters whose
power are dependent on the amount of cosmic energy they consume. As such, I
wanted to address different scenarios, such as when both combatants are in base
and full power, as well as how their armies fare against each other.
Backstory
Darth Nihilus
In the world of Star Wars, the
Force is the focal point of all of existence. It does not know the concepts of
good and evil, of dark and light, emotion and serenity that we have created,
nor the Dichotomy of the Jedi and the Sith, the Light Side and Dark Side as
they have labeled them, each of these are merely states of the same thing. The
Force is everything, and, when wielded to its full potential, can do anything.
The being that was once known as Darth Nihilus is an example of how terrifying
a concept that can be.
Every action creates an echo.
Through the Force, space and time are not a factor, even the smallest action
will influence all life, the utterance of a single phrase can move galaxies. In
approximately 4000 BBY, the rogue Jedi Revan launched a counterattack against
the invading Mandalorians and led them to Malachor V. There, he challenged
Mandalore the Ultimate to single combat and won, taking the helm of Mandalore
and having all their Beskar armor melted to slag, then left them behind on the
planet as he ordered the activation of his secret weapon, the Mass Shadow
Generator. In Star Wars lore, aMass Shadow is an energy field created by celestial objects that distorts
Hyperspace. The weapon reversed Malachor’s Mass Shadow, causing the planet to
simultaneously expand and collapse in on itself. The Mandalorian army was
eviscerated in an instant on the surface, as fleets were pulled from orbit to
the center of the planet, massive chunks of land terraformed and flung through
space. The great cataclysm reverberated and caused an echo through the galaxy,
described as a “wound in the Force”.
This was not merely retaliation
against the Mandalorians, as destroying Malachor hadanother purpose. Malachor was also a base of operations for the Sith, and housed
the Trayus Academy. Revan wanted to end the Mandalorian War as well as snuff
out the possibility of any future conflicts by crushing the Sith, but in doing
so, created something far worse than both. At the epicenter of the violently
convulsing Mass Shadow that tore open the wound in the Force was the Sith Lord
Darth Nihilus, who was killed and reborn as something neither living nor dead,
motivated only by the emptiness now present in himself, expressed as hunger.
Some would describe “him”, if he could be considered a person any longer, as a
black hole that devours all life. More accurately, he is walking entropy, the
death of the universe personified.
Upon waking in the ruins on
Malachor, he pulled the remains of the ships that orbited and crashed on the
planet, constructing a makeshift ship from the pieces he could find, as well as
an almost literal skeleton crew out of the leftover corpses that still remained
from the air battle that he reanimated to carry out his will.
He then traveled amongst the
stars consuming world after world, until he came across the Miraluka homeworld
of Katarr, of which he spared only one being to make his spy, assassin, and
personal slave and then destroyed the planet.
Five years passed and after two
wars that ravaged the galaxy, the Jedi and Sith were nearly extinct and
scattered across worlds. Nihilus sent out his servant Visas Marr to search for
Force sensitives to consume, as it was the only thing at that point that could
come close to sating his endless hunger.
She encountered Meetra Surik, Jedi
Exile survivor of Malachor and former follower of Revan. She attacked her
aboard Revan's ship, the Ebon Hawk and Meetra convinced her to serve her
instead. The remaining Jedi had a plan to draw out the Sith, and Nihilus is
lured to Telos, the location of Atris' Jedi Enclave. Meetra and Visas team up
with the Mandalorian Canderous Ordo, who was then Mandalore, and the three
encountered Nihilus on board the Ravager. Nihilus attempted to feed on Meetra, but
her carrying an echo of Malachor and being directly responsible as she was
taking orders from Revan and gave the ok to detonate the weapon, was like
attempting to pull from the very void that drove his hunger. This severely
weakened him giving the three a fighting chance, yet Nihilus was still more
than a match for them. Visas severed her Force Bond with Nihilus, stunning him
and giving them the opening they needed to destroy his physical form. Meetra
then took his mask as it was a powerful relic that housed his essence that
could potentially be dangerous. If they hadn't stopped him then and there, the
universe would have been consumed and no one would stop him.
Nihilus would become one of the
most feared and revered Sith Lords of all time, worshipped far in the future by
the likes of Darth Krayt, and his name removed from the Jedi Archives on Coruscant for
fear of invoking him even after death.
Icon of Sin
In Judeo-Christian lore, the Icon
of Sin referred to the personification of all sins of mankind that were left
unredeemed by Christ as a result of those who didn’t repent and accept Him into
one’s heart. In the crusade period it was represented as the demonic figure
Baphomet, depicted as a sacrificial goat, and was used as a scare tactic
against Paganism and to demonize false idols and the practice of other
religions.
In Doom lore, the references to
Christianity aren’t directly made though parallels remain. Iconography of the
being existed as far back as Doom 1, though the Doom Marine wouldn’t encounter
him until the end of Doom 2, confronted after the invasion of Earth while in
Hell. There, the Icon was in a dormant state, though could still attack Doomguy
and summon waves of enemies. Doomguy killed the Icon by firing his rocket
launcher into his exposed brain, causing it to writhe anddestroy most of Hell in its death throes. The vanquished arch-demon then lay silent in
a fractured Hell for millenia.
Though dead, a Dark Lord's disembodied consciousness can still influence the actions of
sentient beings from beyond the barriers of realms. One of these realms was the
world of Sentinel Prime, the home planet of the Sentinels, a race of
technologically advanced space knights. After the appearance of the figure who
later came to be known as the Doom Slayer, Hell turned its attention to the
Sentinels as one of many worlds left to conquer.
With the Slayer leading the charge,
several raids were lead into the heart of Hell itself and many demons were
slain in their glory. In retaliation, the dormant Icon telepathically
influenced the mind of Commander Valen after his son was killed in combat. He
tormented Valen with visions of his son suffering perpetually in Hell, and the
Icon promised the return of his son to the world of the living if Valen left
the Hellgate open. Valen, in a moment of irrational weakness, obliged and the
city of Argent D'Nur was claimed by Hell, its Wraith deities absorbed to
further power up Hell's armies. Valen's son was resurrected, but in Hell's
infinite cruelty was now bound to the heart of the Icon of Sin, his still-beating
heart on his pedestal as offering.
Valen was labeled the Betrayer and
condemned himself to the Hellscape as punishment. Centuries later, the sealed
sarcophagus of the dreaded Slayer was unearthed on Mars and freed by Samuel
Hayden. The Slayer countered the ongoing invasion on Mars and headed to Earth,
killing the Hell Priests and undoing the demons' conquest of Earth. The Khan
Makyr, leader of the Order Deag and the Hell Priests, in a last ditch effort to
stop the Slayer and claim Earth, resurrected the Icon of Sin in physical form,
sealing it in a mechanical construct of Makyr design to suppress and control
it. In the Khan Makyr's hubris, believed they could control the Icon by
influencing the human spirit attached to it, but the Slayer freed the spirit of
Valen's son, removing his bond to him and relinquishing any measure of control
the Makyrs had over it.
In physical form, the Icon of
Sin takes the form of a demonic Titan, a Harbinger of the End Times, the
apocalypse in form and function. His presence damages and pulls away reality
itself, creating a singularity that can swallow entire universes. Fortunately,
the Slayer killed the Icon before this happened, though a Titan will not remain
dead unless the weapon of a God-King is permanently embedded in its body.
Knowing this, the Slayer broke off
the blade of his Crucible into its head, allowing it to collapse and remain
dormant once again.
It wasn't until the Doom Slayer
faced the Dark Lord Davoth in ritual combat and won that the Icon was permanently destroyed, as Hell and all its beings are tied to his essence.
Feats
Nihilus
DC and Durability
Merely stepping on Malachor’s
surface is like having every cell of your being crushed as your Mass Shadow is
manipulated. Kotor 2's main cast are seemingly unaffected. Also scales to the Storm Beasts who tanked the Mass Shadow
Generator ( starts at 10:00).
Scales to Jedi Masters like Bastila Shan who lead the Jedi strike team against Revan.
Scales to Exar Kun, who tanked an
attack from the Jedi Council that was visible from space.
Scales to Clone Wars era Jedi
Masters who are at least baseline planet level, as YarealPoof was able
to manipulate a planet's worth of energy.
Was most affected by the Mass Shadow
Generator's detonation, and though he died, his physical body remained intact.
Destroyed the Miraluka homeworld of Katarr. (5:40)
During the Ravager mission in Kotor
2, it is made exceedingly clear (starting at 3:50) that Nihilus must be killed before his ship is
destroyed, meaning destroying his ship first, even in space, would barely
inconvenience him.
It is
stated by Kreia, Visas and NPC’s that he
has consumed multiple planets and stars.
Drained his
own master, Kreia's life Force, and scales to Darth Sion who beat her to near death beforehand.
Kreia and
Visas claim that if he is not stopped, he will leave behind an empty galaxy and proceed to consume the rest of the universe.
Speed
Scales to
Clone Wars era Jedi (pg.7) and
General Grievous, who can react at near lightspeed.
Was able to
keep up in a 3-on-1 duel between himself, Visas, Meetra Surik, and Mandalore the Preserver.
Traveled
from Onderon to Telos in less than a week. For context, the Ravager is incapable
of Hyperspace and is not propelled by engines, Nihilus instead pulls it through space by use of the Force. (5:34-12:09 for context) From what I could
gather from this galaxy map and the coordinates I found from Wookiepedia, Telos is about 9 star systems away from Onderon. The average
distance between solar systems irl is about 6.5 light-years, and if we lowball
this to saying Nihilus took 7 days to get there (link to calculator here, Google
used to convert values), we get 339
times the speed of light.
Icon
DC and Durability
Doom
Eternal's cinematics showcase the moon after it's been shattered. It's never directly addressed, but it's
clear it was a direct or indirect result of the Hell invasion. A bit vague, but
there are similar feats in the same ballpark (see Hellification in abilities).
Destroyed a
section of Hell in Doom 2's ending, to the point Doomguy wondered "where bad folks will go when
they die now". I would hesitate to call this universal given the vagueness
of the flavor text, though at least "untold miles" were destroyed.
It takes
several shots from Doomguy's strongest weapons to pierce the Icon's armor and
damage his body. He should also scale to the BFG 10000 blowing a hole through Mars, considering the Crucible is canonically the only weapon potent
enough to kill him.
Speed
Dodges
Doomguy's projectiles, which range from bullets and missiles to plasma and
ion-based energy bolts.
The AOE of
his abilities and attacks have a stellar radius, able to encompass entire
planets and beyond.
Abilities
Nihilus
The Force
“The Force
is an energy that flows through all living things, and like energy, it may be
harnessed, channeled, and consumed. At times, it may even be a substance that
can burn and ignite.”
-Kreia
In short,
the Force is the nexus by which its users can perform the feats and abilities
they possess. By use of the Force, one can gain strength and agility, as well
as metaphysical energy manipulation and raw destructive power. Its potency is
dependent on the power of the user.
Force Vision
An ability
that allows its user to see beyond the physical and instead see the energy that
flows through objects and matter. Also allows one to see past walls and the
alignment of Force users.
Cosmic Awareness
His former
master Kreia fears speaking his name, as even a stray thought (17:00) may draw him near. He can also see planets and stars
regardless of his location in the galaxy, and can navigate to celestial bodies
without the use of navigation software or so much as a map. He can also alter one’s perception (9:30) to force them to view the galaxy as he does.
Force Lightning/Force Storm
Force
Lightning aka Sith Lightning is an advanced ability taught and used by
practitioners of the Dark Side of the Force. It allows one to manipulate electrons
in the air as well as generate electricity from one’s own energy. There are
multiple abilities in Star Wars called Force Storm, though the one in KotoR is
presented as the user becoming a living Tesla Coil that rains down lightning on
all nearby. Again, it is dependant on the amount of energy produced by the
user, and can be more powerful than natural lightning, as it can kill the Storm
Beasts on Malachor V (see Feats).
Force Drain/Death Field
Darth
Nihilus’ primary ability that makes him so dangerous in the Star Wars mythos.
Force Drain is exactly what it sounds like, the user drains the Force from an
object or being. The pinnacle of this ability is using it so frequently that it
happens automatically, a passive ability that saps the life force from living
beings and energy from objects within a set vicinity. Nihilus has utilised this
to such an extent that he drains planets and civilizations in mere moments
simply by being near them.
Stasis Field
An ability
that forces a target or group of targets’ body into a state of meta-stasis,
effectively paralyzing them.
Force Stun
Similar to
Stasis Field, but affects the mind rather than the body. Heavily disorients
those its used on, even top tier Force users have difficulty resisting this
from Nihilus.
Dominate Mind/Inspire
Followers
Can
telepathically force ideas and suggestions into other’s minds. He
telepathically reached the military leader of Onderon and convinced him to
serve him. The Jedi Exile has such potency in telepathic ability that they can convince others that jumping into a chasm is a good idea, and Nihilus far exceeds
them in psionic ability, to the point where they have a great deal of
difficulty resisting him. When others are converted to his side, they will
fight and die for him, fighting with further efficiency and coordination than
before, in a manner similar to Battle Meditation.
Terror/Insanity
A form of
emotional manipulation that induces fear, can cause groups of targets to cower
in terror or cause madness through sheer panic.
Force Shield
An ability
that allows a user to shield themselves with the Force, offering another layer
of protection.
Technopathy
Despite
being a dead ship, the Ravager still has functional computers and life support
systems with no known power source. Nihilus himself keeps these systems running
through his own power.
Metaphysical Presence
There is a
reason I keep referring to his death as “destroying his physical body”. Sith
lords can bond themselves to objects upon death to create apparitions near them or speak to and influence others from beyond the grave,
but Nihilus already had access to the beyond due to what happened on Malachor.
He was technically already dead, puppeting his corpse from beyond the Living
Force. Nihilus attached his essence to both his mask and his holocron, making him one of the only Sith to have more than one artifact
to manifest from after death. One can only remove his presence from the
physical world permanently by destroying these artifacts, though killing him in
physical form will put him out of commission and release the energy he absorbed.
Necromancy
Just as
Nihilus puppets his own body from beyond death, he can also do the same to
others. After he has drained those of their life force, he can convert them
into his undead slaves, still with full consciousness and functionality as
though they were still alive.
Deathspeak
This
“ability” has no real name in canon, though he is no longer able to speak as
most living beings would. He instead projects ghastly sounds from the Force
itself, and can allow those he has consumed to speak though him, which comes
out like an unsettling amalgamation of whispers and screams. Multiple fans
claim he is speaking the Sith language or the language of the Force itself,
though there is no confirmation for this.
Icon
Hellification
A process
in which the Hell dimension is merged with a section of land, terraforming it
to suit Hell's environment. Hell Growth overtakes structures and locations with
its cells reproducing at a rapid rate beyond any living being, further
corrupting and Hellifying the landscape. Storms are created, gravity is
manipulated, and magnetic poles are reversed, essentially all forms of energy
are thrown off to induce chaos. The Hellification in Doom Eternal shows that he
can induce this on a muli-continental to planet-wide scale, and this dissipates when he is killed.
Spatial Manipulation
The Icon
can manipulate the barriers to the Hell dimension to summon Hell energy and
demon minions for support. He can also manipulate space to telefragenemies.
Hellfire/Hell Energy
The Icon
can also control Hell energy, which he can pull from Hell via his dimensional
manipulation or project his own. He can fire it in beams, rain down meteors,
and set Hellfire to the battlefield.
Physical Aberration
The Icon's
very physical presence is a singularity that distorts space and reality. He
gradually becomes more powerful and destructive over time, similar to how a
black hole increases in size and gravity the more mass it consumes over time.
His physical strength and destructive potential also increases the longer he
manifests in the physical plane, to the point where he can pull in the entirety
of the universe with his sheer gravity.
Survivability/Immortality
The Titan
species of demon is effectively immortal, with the Icon being the god figure of
the Titans. He can be killed, though temporarily, and in the Doom universe only
a God-king's weapon, such as the Doom Slayer's Crucible can do so. We of course
treat these cases as NLF, not to mention if he can be immobilized by the weapon,
it may be possible to do so by other methods.
The extent
of his immortality allows him to continue to fight despite being disemboweled
and reduced to flesh and bone.
Psychic presence/Telepathy
Even
without a body, as a Dark Lord the Icon can influence civilizations or
individuals to commit evil acts. As mentioned before, he compelled the
experienced Sentinel Commander Valen to leave the Hellgate open in exchange for
his son's life. He can also possess humans and control the dead to begin or accelerate
Hellification via Satanic rituals.
Arsenal
Nihilus
Lightsaber
The primary
weapon of choice for Force sensitives. Nihilus' lightsaber glows red via a
synthetic Aggedon crystal. Nihilus uses a little-known lightsaber form known as
Atra-Manua, a Sith-modified variation of Form 4 and a defensive combat form
that relies on devastating counterattacks with rapid, sweeping and circular
motions meant to instantly wound or incapacitate opponents. He moves
deceptively fast for a corpse, and his exceedingly tall frame gives him an edge
over most opponents.
Ravager
The Ravager
is Nihilus' vessel he uses for interplanetary travel in order to consume
celestial bodies and feed his hunger. It is a makeshift ship scavenged from
wreckage of destroyed ships he pulled from Malachor’s orbit following its
devastation. By all accounts it should not function; it has no Hyperdrive or
sub-light engines, and it is full of holes with massive chunks missing from its
infrastructure, doors and hallways leading directly into open space with no
airlocks. Nihilus holds this all together via the Force and it has its own
gravity and atmosphere that are barely enough to sustain the living members of
his crew.
Mask and robes
A mask and
padded robes that offer some protection in combat. His presence can be
projected through these objects should his body be destroyed.
Icon
Makyr Armor
A
containment suit meant to seal the Icon for the Makyrs' purposes. It also
protects the Icon's body, and should be somewhat proportional to his own
durability considering both react similarly to the Doom Slayer's weaponry.
Armies
Nihilus
Nihilus Slaves
The crew of
the Ravager, acquired either through his psionic abilities or necromancy. They
are mostly engineers and technicians, though can defend themselves if
necessary.
Sith Assassins
Sith
trained to conceal themselves completely, effectively invisible to the
untrained eye. Are capable of Force Drain (though not nearly on the same scale
as their master) and can become proportionately as powerful as their targets,
to an extent.
Colonel Tobin
A military
leader from Onderon who was persuaded to serve Nihilus via his telepathic
influence. Possesses blasters, grenades, and energy shields. Also commands
Onderon military forces aboard the Ravager.
Visas Marr
Visas is a
Miraluka, a blind, human-like race that uses the Force to see. Nihilus uses her
as his personal assassin and spy, often sending her to find suitable planets
and powerful beings to feed on, and the two communicate via psychic bond. She
carries a lightsaber and is a powerful Force user that can perform most of
Nihilus' abilities, though on a smaller scale. Can also alter the perception
and senses of her targets.
Icon
The Unwilling
Effectively
zombie drones controlled by a Demon Lord (the Icon of Sin in this case). Like ants,
they break down and gather carrion and carnage to create Gore Nests, ritually-induced Hell Growth that acts as a dimensional nexus to
Hell. In combat they pose little threat to anything stronger than a human,
though if any are left alive they will continue to create Gore Nests and bring
in more reinforcements.
Hellified Soldiers
Humans that
have been transformed into demons via an Argent Wave, usually generated by a
sufficiently large Gore Nest.
Imps
The first
true demons that appear in a Hell invasion, usually the frontrunners of Hell's
armies. With their lizard-like appendages, they can crawl on walls and ceilings
to infiltrate and flank defenses. They also possess similar transdimensional
properties as the Gore Nests, able to summon Hell Energy to use as projectiles.
Gargoyles
Imps that
have evolved to suit the climate of Exultia, home of the Night Sentinels.
Possess flight and can attack with their sharp talons in addition to their
other abilities.
Tentacles
Essentially
the "roots" of Hell Growth that spread rapidly to further induce
Hellification. Seem to possess a will of their own and can attack from the
ground. Vary greatly in size.
Prowlers
AKA
Nightmare Imps, as they are distant cousins that have more refined dimensional
manipulation, as they can teleport and exist between dimensions to become
intangible.
Whiplash
Snake-like
demons that slither around and use hook blades to maneuver around enemies at
close quarters.
Pinky
Basically
Hell's equivalent of a feral hog, AKA Pig Demon, nicknamed Pinkies for the
pigmentation of their skin. Covered in durable scales that are heavily
resistant to ballistics and missiles, but are more vulnerable from behind.
Cacodemon
Floating, ball-shaped demons that fire projectiles from their mouths, and
can produce a highly corrosive acid. A bite from their serrated teeth can easily
tear through armor plating.
Pain Elemental
A more
highly evolved relative of the Cacodemon, can summon demons from within its
mouth called Lost Souls which are fired as projectiles. In addition to damaging
their targets, a Lost Soul can attach to a host to possess them.
Mancubus
A super-heavy bloated demon that produces a highly flammable and combustible
substance within its stomach that can be fired as projectiles from its cannon
arms. Produce enough energy to propel itself off the ground. Can produce AOE
attacks by slamming the ground and explode, leaving behind damaging acid when
killed.
Arachnotron
Offspring
of the Spider Mastermind from the Fourth Age. Has arachnid appendages it can
use to scale walls, and possess a turret and grenade launchers, essentially a
mobile tank. They have an intelligence that exceeds that of any human, thanks
to their massive brains.
Revenant
A skeletal
demon with a jetpack and shoulder-mounted rocket battery. Proficient in
attacking from above, in addition to being a formidable melee opponent up close.
Hell Knight
The elite
forces of Hell, that rush down enemies relentlessly and attack them head-on
with brute force.
Baron of Hell
A Hell
Knight that ascended beyond their ordinary capabilities, now possessing a new
body and the ability to project BFG-like energy blasts.
Fireborne Baron
An offshoot
breed of Barons of Hell that have adapted to the harsh climates of the Burning
Abyss, perpetually coated in Hellfire and now having energy blades on either
forearm. Bleed lava and will damage those that come into close contact.
Archvile
Arguably
the most dangerous non-boss enemies in Doom. They are able to resurrect
non-gibbed demons as well as bolster the strength and speed of Hellish forces
exponentially. It can also summon new demons that enter the battlefield with
this buff. Archviles also create flame walls and ignite areas in flame to make
them far more hazardous. Archviles are a priority target since they will
increasingly magnify the threat of demons the longer they remain
Weaknesses
Nihilus
Nihilus’
power is also his greatest weakness. He does not see with his eyes, he
perceives through the Force, and only cosmic amounts of energy are enough to
grab his attention. As such, one can mask their presence to pass by him
undetected or get the drop on him with abilities or weapons beyond his
energy-sensing capabilities. That said, you can’t just shoot a gun at him and
call it a day, as his absorption is passive and anything that enters his field
will be drained, not to mention you still have to get past his durability.
Theoretically, anything that can bypass or exceed these two things can hurt him.
In KotoR 2,
Nihilus attempted to drain Meetra but was weakened as she carried the same void that made him what he is. Therefore
if Nihilus attempted to drain anything devoid of the Force he would be
weakened. One might argue that anything outside the SW universe would apply as
they don’t carry Midichlorians,though the Force is described as something that
flows through all things and is energy that can be harnessed and controlled, and
since celestial objects and forms of energy exist in the Doom universe it
wouldn’t be a stretch to say that Nihilus could absorb those as well. What
happened with Meetra on the Ravager was also very plot specific.
Icon
In Doom, it
is established that only a Crucible can kill a Titan, and to keep one down
permanently the blade must remain embedded in a vital area (17:25).
However,
the Titan bodies found on Exultia also suggest that they can be immobilized or
decay past the limits of their immortality, considering they were killed with
mech suits and not a Crucible.
Verdicts
Base Nihilus vs Base Icon
In this
scenario, both combatants are dropped into the fray at base power.
It's
difficult to pinpoint what exactly "base power" is for both
characters, considering they're at levels beyond where they started when the
protagonists face them. For example, in KotoR 2, five years have passed since
Nihilus' exposure to the Mass Shadow Generator, so there's no telling how much
more powerful he became, what level he started at, and how many planets and/or
stars he absorbed. The Icon of Sin is also active on Earth for an indeterminate
amount of time and it is unclear the rate at which he grows in power.
To simplify
matters and avoid a guessing game, we'll say that "base power" means
the level they were at when the player character encounters them. Now, the Icon
of Sin is already at a disadvantage considering Nihilus at that point had
already consumed several planets and stars worth of energy, and by the time
Doomguy gets to the Icon he's still working on forming a singularity to
envelope the Earth.
The Icon
still has spatial hax to telefrag Nihilus' body, though he has to consciously
use this whereas Death Field is passive, and it is more likely for Nihilus to
slice the Icon into pieces despite his size before he even gets a chance, considering
the massive speed difference.
Furthermore,
in his death throes a stray bolt of energy from Nihilus was able to wound
Mandalore, who is very similar in stats to a pre-DLC Doomguy. Nihilus would
also drain the Icon's army before a straggler zombie or Archvile attempts to
resurrect more.
"Gourmet Race" Concept
This
scenario is like a weird hybrid of a Death Battle and a Death Race, with the
universe being the track, and the racers get more buff with each turn.
At the risk
of contradicting myself, I'll try to determine a rate at which the combatants
increase in power.
Now, in
Doom Eternal, it takes less than an hour for Doomguy to get back to Earth, with
Samuel Hayden constantly stressing the urgency that the Icon must be dealt with immediately. Though
we aren't given an exact time frame, it isn't much of a stretch to say that the
Icon's rate of consumption is faster than the Icon's, and it is implied in
in-game text that as soon as Earth is consumed, the singularity increases and
the rest of the universe shortly follows.
That being
said, the energy Nihilus absorbs isn't exactly 1 to 1. Nihilus eating one
planet isn't necessarily the same as gaining 1 planet's GBE worth of energy. It
also depends on the inhabitants and the energy they give off. For example,
consuming Katarr, assuming 1 Jedi scales to a fraction of Exar Kun's feat bare
minimum and baseline planet level at maximum, it was really like consuming
thousands of continents and moons and several planets worth of energy, on top
of the actual planet's own energy. However, Nihilus has to travel light-years
to reach these planets, assuming they'll even feed him that much. Nihilus can
also only do this one by one, whereas the Icon stays right where he is and
pulls the rest of the universe towards him, and will consume mass as well as
energy whereas Nihilus absorbs just the energy. Nihilus' best bet is to find
the Icon and gank him before this happens, assuming he can get there in time.
Army vs Army
The Icon of
Sin's army has far more variation in terms of abilities, and can get the drop
on the Ravager's crew in a variety of ways. Archviles, Gore Nests, and the Icon
himself can continuously produce more demons onto the battlefield, and he
already had a massive strength in numbers advantage. That being said, Visas and
the Sith Assassins are likely more than enough to deal with them in time. The
Sith can absorb their energy and match, if not exceed them in power, as well as
being able to overwhelm them in speed. Their life drain will be able to counter
their intangibilities and other hax.
Now that
all being said… factoring in Nihilus himself makes this all completely
irrelevant. It's game over as soon as he sets foot on the planet (likely even
before that considering his range), the entire Hell Army would be wiped out.
Both Combatants at Max Potential
This is a
bit more straightforward. As said before, The Icon of Sin consumes energy and
matter, whereas Darth Nihilus absorbs just energy. Also, it is implied that the
Icon has destroyed dimensions before, whereas in Nihilus' case its more of a
hypothetical whether or not he can consume a whole universe (though he could
absolutely consume galaxies eventually if allowed to roam free).
Overall verdict
This is a
bit sketchy for me to say, considering typically in a VS match both combatants
are allowed to fight bloodlusted with no restrictions. Though with combatants
who can increase in power, the two are put on equal footing until a maximum is
reached.
But the
reason, say, Life Bringer Galactus or World Breaker Hulk is brought up is VS
debates is because these are forms that are quantifiable and we see what they
are capable of. When you're dealing with a "This character has the
potential to become this powerful" situation, things are a bit more fuzzy.
But if we give both of them the benefit of the doubt, and we pit them against
each other at full potential, the Icon has a huge advantage. If we drop them on
the same battleground at base, Darth Nihilus takes it handedly. Even before his
5-year cosmic feast, he should still be way beyond baseline planet level by
tanking the Mass Shadow Generator and scaling to Jedi Masters, while the Icon
of Sin starts out muli-continental to moon and is approaching planet level
before Doomguy kills him.
Now, this
would be "death before super", a trope in VS where a character kills
another before they reach max power or use their best attack, which is frowned
upon, but the thing is... as long as the Icon is in Nihilus' presence, his
passive life drain simply will not allow this to happen, and we typically put
combatants on the same battlefield for them to fight each other.
The winner is Darth Nihilus
I have been Hero's Shade, and thank you for reading!
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