Legend of Zelda Tier List

Legend of Zelda Tier List

If you VS debate, I’m sure it has come to your attention that there’s a lot of confusion surrounding the Legend of Zelda series in terms of where its characters stand and who scales to whom. This mostly stems from sites using secondary or tertiary sources of information and arbitrary statements, along with plenty of favorable assumptions and guesswork putting characters far higher than they have any business being, and scaling characters to each other without much logical reason. With this list, I will instead be pulling information directly from the games themselves, as they are the primary canon and thus the most reliable source, and will only be using secondary canon like guidebooks or creator interviews if no other information is available, or as a supplement to already existing information. Wiki pages will also be used, but only for displaying lore-based background information and text that appears in the games.

And of course, I will not be listing EVERY enemy, boss or character, as I would be essentially repeating myself and will be forced to speculate where there is basically nothing to draw from. However, I will list of some of the fodder enemy types as a reference point for other beings and characters.

This tier list is loosely based on ThorGunderson’s Ben 10 tier list.

Skulltulas and Walltulas

Basically just large spiders. The children of Kokiri Forest or Ordon Village can easily kill one with a seed launched from a slingshot.

Shadow Insects

The fodder of the Twilit enemies, the sole purpose of these bugs is to carry a small fragment of the essence of a guardian spirit. They are capable of becoming invisible and discharging a small electric shock. Link in wolf form can easily kill them in one bite to help in restoring said spirit’s power. They are ultimately a minor inconvenience to Link’s quest in Twilight Princess.

Stalkins

These pint-sized piles of bones are the weakest of the undead Stal types of enemies. They often appear in groups as they are only a threat in large numbers. They are armed with spears and wear minimal armor, but they are easily disassembled by being stomped on or rolled into with the Iron Boots, let alone with bombs and other weapons.

Bokoblins

The most common of Ganon’s forces. They are unintelligent and beastlike, though they are capable in combat and they carry weapons and shields. They are known for ambushing and attacking travelers.

Moblins

The grunts of Ganon’s army. They carry long spears or axes and can often be found patrolling around temples or castles. The Sheikah Slate data entry on them reads: “their legs alone strong enough to resist the force of a bomb blast.”

Hylians

The elf-like inhabitants of Hyrule. They are referred to by the other races as the ‘humans’. And for all intents and purposes, they are similar in most attributes to humans. In terms of stats, however, they are quite variable, as some are lower than peak human, yet Hylian Knights are capable of driving out Ganon’s forces from populated areas, and during the Imprisoning War they fought off hordes of Moblins. The mayor of Ordon Village often wrestled Gorons (see below) for sport. Some are even capable of magical abilities. They are also capable of living for upwards of a couple hundred years.

Gorons

Gorons are rock-people who usually reside on Death Mountain. They make a living by mining and providing Hyrule with jewel stones and precious metals. Going into the active volcano of Death Mountain is no trouble for them, as they can wade through lava relatively unaffected. They are known for handling heavy mining equipment and explosives. They can bust through large boulders and rock walls with their bare fists, and Darmani’s little brother in Majora’s Mask is completely unshaken by a powder keg detonating near him.

Guardians

These spider-tanks are the bane of all new players of Breath of the Wild. They can be found practically anywhere, and they fire a beam of concentrated energy that will incinerate most targets. They were originally designed to defend Hyrule Castle from Ganon and his monsters, but he was able to possess them. 100 years before the events of BotW, they relentlessly pursued Zelda and Link until the latter was weakened to a near-death state (it is to note that this was before he got all the weapons and armor, and various power boosts from the shrines and Champions after he awoke a century later, and it is implied he fought Ganon just before). Look out, here comes the spider-tank!

Stone Talus

Giant earth elementals that resemble massive rock formations. Most have a weak point that is protected by the rest of their large stone bodies. They are capable of sending Guardians flying with one punch, and their beams won’t even put a dent in a Talus. There are also different types such as an Ice Talus and Magma Talus.

Lynels

Lynels are basically centaurs with lion heads, only arguably way worse. They are highly intelligent, incredibly strong, and insanely durable. They are by far the strongest non-boss enemies, and the Sheikah Slate database reads things such as “facing a Lynel is ill-advised”, “each of their attacks is an invitation to the grave”. It also says that they are resistant to all types of elemental attacks, and it’s likely that they are highly resistant to light magic as well, since they take minimal damage from the Master Sword and several strikes to them can quickly deplete it of energy. The most powerful weapons will also break against their skin. And though you may claim this to be a game mechanic, NPCs in the game will remark on how they sense certain legendary weapons have left the world and Link will have to repair them.

They possess massive shields and melee weapons such as clubs and weapons that can only be described as huge man-sized hunks of metal. Lynels carry bows that usually fire elemental Shock Arrows, which they can fire with keen accuracy up to three shots at once. They can release fireblasts from their mouths and are capable of producing a large explosion from their bodies.

The Bosses

I would like to name a specific individual that could take this spot, but honestly there are so many bosses that are around the same level that any of them could. In Ocarina of Time, there is Volvagia, the subterranean lava dragon who eats Gorons and casts a stormcloud over Death Mountain, and Morpha, who according to Navi has “absolute control of water” and freezes Zora’s Domain. Goht in Majora’s Mask causes perpetual Winter on Snowhead Mountain until killed, and Twinmold casts a curse of undeath across Ikana Canyon. Gohma’s DC was calc’d to about 13 tons (city block level) and Morpha was calc’d to 1.4 kilotons (high end MCB). The Blight Ganons in BotW took over the Divine Beasts. Most of these bosses are on the high end of Multi-City Block level.

The Triforce Heroes

The three Links who appear in Triforce Heroes. Unfortunately, not many feats exist for them other than defeating bosses such as Moldorm, who was a boss in A Link to the Past. They also have various costumes that grant them various abilities, such as the Serpent’s Toga that makes them invulnerable to attacks in the game provided they are standing still. Despite them being named Link and going on an adventure, none of them are actually the incarnation of the Goddesses’s Chosen Hero, that would be Link in A Link Between Worlds.

Zelda

You may take issue with her being so low on this list (honestly her being this high is being generous), but her feats are few and far in between, and she often gets captured or defeated by the likes of Zant, Agahnim (who turns out to be Ganon) and Vaati. Though her power stems mainly from her light-based magic and evil-sealing abilities, she has little to no combat feats as she is clearly not a fighter outside of being Sheik. Even then, it’s not very clearly shown what exactly she can do aside from play some of the magic songs for Link and conjure a small sandstorm or fire, surviving being ragdolled by an evil spirit, and jumping into a lake from a high tree. Aside that, she can teleport herself and others to a spiritual plane and enlist the help of the Sages or guardian spirits. She can conjure Light Arrows and cast light magic that momentarily stuns Ganon. In BotW, she dispelled Ganon’s affect on several Guardians and survived being sealed in Calamity Ganon’s pocket dimension for 100 years.

Zant

Zant is the usurper of the Twilight Realm, who transmuted its inhabitants into deformed beasts. He is capable of casting his magic across town-sized areas, and anyone under its effects will become spirits. He brings Link to his own building and town-sized pocket dimensions where he fights him. He also turned Midna into her imp-like state.

Midna

Midna aids Link throughout his adventure in Twilight Princess. She displays a slew of powers such as teleportation, shadow travel, telekinesis, and intangibility. She kills Zant after he fights Link and with the Fused Shadows she clashed with Ganon in his spirit form, causing an explosion that destroyed Hyrule Castle and the surrounding town.

Vaati

A sorcerer and former student of Ezlo (before he became a bird…hat…thing) who became lustful for power after he “became corrupted by the hearts of men” … whatever that means. He is the main antagonist of Minish Cap and Four Swords Adventures. He is responsible for creating the Shadow Links and turned Zelda to stone. Vaati is also capable of shapeshifting. He transforms Hyrule Caste in his own image, ruins towns and villages with typhoons, and battles the four Links.

The Four Links

Link as he appears in Four Swords, aka “Link times 4”. After drawing the Four Sword, he splits into four identical Links. They cooperatively traverse through dungeons and defeat Vaati. They possess magical items such as the Gnat Hat which functions similarly to Ezlo in Minish Cap, shrinking them to the size of an insect. They can wear the Pegasus Boots that greatly boost their speed, allowing them to clear fields in seconds. The Links also have a Bow-Wow as a pet/weapon, basically a Chain Chomp from the Mario series that allows them to bust through walls. The Four Sword then reappears in Four Swords Adventures when Vaati resurrects.

Girahim

One of the main antagonists of Skyward Sword. He has teleportation abilities and can summon blades. He can also summon hordes of Bokoblins and Moblins and battles some of the guardian spirits and Link several times. Towards the end of the game, it is revealed that he is a weapon created by Demise.

Ganondorf Dragmire

The image above is from Hyrule Warriors which is non-canon, but I just love the design so much. Ganondorf Dragmire or simply Ganondorf is the version of Ganon who appears in Ocarina of Time, Twilight Princess, and Wind Waker.

In Gerudo Desert, the Gerudo race is populated by only females. However, it is said that if a male Gerudo is born, he shall rule as their king. Eventually Ganondorf was born, who is the mortal reincarnation of Demise. He become a powerful sorcerer and skilled thief, and after Link drew the Master Sword he unknowingly left open a portal to the Sacred Realm, where Ganondorf seized the Triforce of Power. With it, he is granted additional power and abilities, and survives for hundreds of years reappearing in different time periods and plaguing the descendants and incarnations of Link and Zelda. He creates most of the monsters that appear in Hyrule, resurrects ancient monsters like Volvagia, places a massive boulder in front of Dodongo’s Cavern, and is capable of BFRing beings into pocket dimensions. He tanks blasts from Midna with the Fused Shadows and has two island level feats from Wind Waker: destroying Greatfish Isle and conjuring a storm over the entirety of the Great Sea.

The Hero of the Skies

Link as he appears in Skyward Sword. He lives in a high-altitude area above the clouds and can crush large stone pillars and a giant gold automaton. He wrestles free from the tentacles of and defeats a seamonster that can easily pierce through the hull of a ship. He also defeats Girahim, The Imprisoned, and Demise as he is slowly regaining his power from Zelda’s spirit.

The Hero of Winds

Link as he appears in Wind Waker and Phantom Hourglass. Aka “Toon Link”. This tough little guy got launched into the wall of the Forsaken Fortress no worse for wear, and froze an active volcano with his magic. He can control wind with the Wind Waker and summon gusts of wind with the Deku Leaf. He also defeats Ganondorf.

The Hero of Twilight

Link as he appears in Twilight Princess. No, not Edward or Bella. There are no heroes in that movie.

He sumo wrestles with Gorons (including one five times his size wearing heavy armor) and has a ball and chain that destroys large sheets of ice. The Triforce of Courage protects him from Twilight magic, which rather than turning him into a spirit transforms him into a wolf, and can turn back into a human with the Master Sword. As a wolf, he is capable of attacking intangible beings such as ghosts. He also defeats Zant and Ganondorf in one-on-one combat.

Farosh

Farosh is one of the guardian spirit dragons in Hyrule, its element being lightning. Shay the traveler in Breath of the Wild has this to say about it: “Hey, buddy! Got a map? So on this map of yours, do you see Dueling Peaks to the north of here? Well, apparently that used to be just one mountain a really long time ago. The legends say a dragon god split the mountain in half to forge a way through, and that's how it went from one to two. Recently, some are even saying they've seen the shadow of a large creature on the surface of Lake Floria!” For reference, the Dueling Peaks are this big.

Ganon

Ganon as he appears in the Downfall Timeline (in other words A Link to the Past and Zelda 1 and 2) who seems to be different from the Ganon who appeared in Ocarina of Time. This version wields a trident and is more hulking, monsterous, and piglike in appearance. He is also physically the strongest and most durable version of Ganon (aside from BotW), able to take several slashes from the most powerful version of the Master Sword relatively unphased before becoming weakened. He can transform into different animals such as a bat, create fire bats that swarm and set ablaze the arena, turn invisible, use telekinesis, teleport, and use different types of energy blasts. The versions of Ganon that appear in the Oracle games and Four Sword Adventures are considered separate entities, though this version is likely stronger. The wizard Yuga also attempted to merge with him in A Link Between Worlds.

Link (Zelda 1 and 2)

This Link took down massive dragons like Gleeock and Aquamentus. He also killed several Lynels. Impressively, he took on Ganon without the Master Sword, though he did have Silver Arrows which “turned him to red mist” (come on, we all know that’s really blood).

In Zelda 2, he defeats Dark Link and prevents Ganon’s resurrection. He also gains shapeshifting powers such as turning into a fairy and flying through stages, and also can become invulnerable temporarily.

The Hero of the Past

Link as he appears in A Link to the Past, a prequel to Zelda 1 and 2. This version of Link has some of the most powerful abilities and weapons in the Zelda canon. He has the Magical Cape which turns him invisible and intangible, and crushes the Helmasaur King with the Magic Hammer. He has Silver Arrows and the most powerful variation of the Master Sword, the Golden Master Sword, which was tempered by dwarves and blessed by a Great Fairy. He also has the Ether, Bombos, and Quake Medallions, the latter of which shook a whole plateau. He wears the Pegasus Boots, which grant him speed similar to Goron Link’s rolling (see below).  And of course, he defeats Ganon.

The Hero of Time

Link as he appears in Ocarina of Time and Majora’s Mask. He also appears in Spirit Form as the Hero’s Shade in Twilight Princess. As his title suggests, he has various methods of time manipulation, such as time slowing, time reversing, and time acceleration. He is also capable of summoning storms and teleporting to various locations. He has magical attacks like Din’s Fire which releases a large room-sized fireblast and can put up energy barriers around himself. He can rotate entire rooms around by pushing them and lifted a giant stone obelisk (with the Golden Gauntlets), estimated to weighing roughly 1000 tons (his body can also support the weight). And of course, he defeats Ganondorf and wears down his transformed state of Ganon with the Megaton Hammer and Biggoron’s Sword before he was sealed away by Zelda and the Sages.

In Majora’s Mask, he receives various powerups, weapons and abilities. He gets his durability doubled by one of the Great Fairies (which was already impressive enough on his own since he just fought Ganon) and obtains the Great Fairy Sword, which is proclaimed as being “the most powerful of all blades”. This is more than just a baseless boast, as it was created by the Great Fairies, who according to Tatl could defeat the Skull Kid who at the time had Majora’s Mask. It is also highly effective against Majora’s second form. He also has the Stone Mask which makes him unnoticeable to enemies, the Lense of Truth which allows him to see through illusions, and the Goron Mask which allows him to inhabit the body of a Goron, increasing his physical strength and allows him to clear Termina Field in less than a minute via rolling. To determine how impressive this is, we are told in Majora’s Mask that the Four Giants took 100 steps from Clock Town (which is in the center of Termina Field) to the four main locations in the game. We can see from a cutscene that these giants are a bit taller than the clock tower in Clock Town, and according to this site the average height of a clock tower is around 600 feet tall.  This means if Goron Link rolls from Clock Town to one of the four main locations, his speed would be about 304 meters per second, about 0.8 Mach. This would apply to his reaction time as well considering he would be dodging boulders, walls, and other hazards. Even if we use the in-game countdown timer (which is honestly ambiguous on its own since it takes Sakon an hour to enter his lair from a relatively short distance, so I wouldn’t take it at face value) and assume this takes 30 minutes, it’s about 14 m/s which is well above peak human. He also possesses the Fierce Deity’s Mask, which allows him to assume the form of one of the most powerful characters in the Zelda canon, Fierce Deity Link. So powerful, he’s several levels higher than most everything else on this list, so I felt I had to put him in a separate entry to express the vast power difference.

While the HoT is one of the strongest Links and in base form has the weapons capable of damaging Majora in his first and second forms, his final form is a different story, and he is susceptible to a Majora’s Mask-possessed Skull Kid’s hax and DC, as the massive explosion caused by him kills him if he doesn’t stop him in time.

Divine Beasts

The Divine Beasts are essentially giant mechs piloted by Champions chosen by Hylia. Vah Naboris is capable of causing thunderstorms throughout Gerudo Desert and Vah Ruta produces enough rain to flood the dam at Zora’s Domain. A coordinated assault from all four of them is meant to destroy Calamity Ganon.

Calamity Ganon

Despite not possessing the Triforce of Power, this is the most powerful incarnation of Ganon, and likely the last. After suffering defeat so many times over the centuries, Ganon gave up on resurrection and somehow left his physical form to become the true incarnation of hatred itself that Demise intended. His presence produces Malice across the Hyrule kingdom, which is a life-draining goo that is highly corrosive and can produce the undead floating heads of enemies. He also resurrects the Lynels and creates thousands of Bokoblins and Moblins, and possesses all of the Guardians. He also creates the Blight Ganons, which are extensions of his consciousness that he placed inside each of the Divine Beasts to kill its Champions and take them over from the inside. In the presence of a Blood Moon, he is able to resurrect all enemies killed by Link.

He also created a makeshift body of Guardian parts stitched together with Malice. This body takes on Link and survives an indirect blast from the Divine Beasts. He puts up an energy barrier around himself that deflects hits from the Master Sword. He also has another form called Dark Beast Ganon that storms across Hyrule Field.

The Hero of the Wild

Link as he appears in Breath of the Wild. Aka “Champion Link”. Prior to his hundred-year nap, he was the appointed guardian knight for Princess Zelda, protecting her from enemies such as the ninja-like Yiga Clan and hordes of Moblins and Lynels. He is eventually weakened after an unprepared fight against Calamity Ganon and a large group of Guardians. He is mortally wounded and taken to the Shrine of Resurrection, where he is put into a comatose state until he regains his full strength 100 years later (you would think they would try to heal him and wake him up a bit earlier than that). Upon awakening, he travels the world and collects spirit orbs from 120 shrines which he trades for various power boosts at Goddess or Demon statues. He infiltrates the Yiga Clan Hideout and kills their master. He also retakes the Divine Beasts and is given the magical abilities of the fallen Champions, including Mipha’s Grace, which will revive and fully heal him upon death, Revali’s Gale, which allows him to summon a gust of wind and leap several hundred feet into the air and glide, Darruk’s Protection, where the spirit of the Goron Champion will surround Link in an energy barrier and parry attacks, and Urbosa’s Fury, which summons lightning strikes around Link’s vicinity. He collects various weaponry such as the Champions’ legendary weapons as well as the Master Sword, and armor he picked up from around the world.  He defeats the Blight Ganons and Calamity Ganon.

The Great Fairies (Majora’s Mask)

(Again, image is from Hyrule Warriors. I’m a sucker for the designs. Doesn’t look much different from the 3DS version anyway.)

The Great Fairies that appear in Termina possess a ton of magical abilities. They are capable of healing and increasing Link’s power and durability as well as granting him additional magical abilities. They create the Great Fairy Sword and are as strong as Skull Kid under the influence of Majora’s Mask. However, like Link, they are vulnerable to his hax as he was able to shatter their bodies and essence to pieces and scatter them across the four temples. However, it seems they are able to undo Skull Kid’s de-aging spell on Kafei.

Skull Kid (with Majora’s Mask)

The Skull Kid who Link met in the Lost Woods, after he stole Majora’s Mask from the Happy Mask Salesman. Inside the mask manifests a powerful demon that bestows its wearer great and terrible power and manipulates them into inflicting chaos and misery onto others. He has various abilities such as teleportation, levitation, transmutation, and soul manipulation. Upon meeting Link he took the soul of the Deku Butler’s deceased son and merged it with Link, transforming him into a Deku Scrub. He conjured the four bosses of each temple that cast various magical affects across the main areas (like the aforemention Goht and Twinmold). As mentioned before, he scattered the essence of the four Great Fairies. But, most impressively, he created a miniature moon as a dark omen for the inhabitants of Termina and slowly brings it closer to the earth to terrify the inhabitants of Termina before finally crashing it into Clock Town at midnight on the night of the Carnival of Time. What makes this so impressive is the massive explosion this causes. This explosion is so devastating and so fast that it destroys all of Termina and will engulf and kill Link wherever he is on the map, be he undergound or atop Stone Tower. It’s because of this that this explosion is calculated and generally accepted to be multi-continental+ in terms of Destructive Capacity. The ancient tribe who used the mask in hexing rituals were able to create a similar explosion.

The Four Giants

The Four Giants are the guardian protector spirits of Termina. Link plays the Oath to Order to summon them to the Clock Tower where they stop the moon when Skull Kid is attempting to crash it down. They successfully prevent it, and Skull Kid passes out from the strain of pushing against them.

Majora

After Skull Kid goes unconscious, the mask leaves him behind to go inside the moon and add his power to it, and the Giants begin struggling. There, it confronts Link and breathes life into the remains of the bosses he defeated to attack him. After they are defeated, he transforms into Majora’s Incarnation and begins frantically dashing around the stage. After this form is defeated he transforms into Majora’s Wrath (pictured above), the full-power manifestation of the demon Majora allowed by the mask.

Fierce Deity Link

The Hero of Time after donning the Fierce Deity’s Mask. Said mask emanates dark power that is speculated in-game to be “even worse than Majora”. Fierce Deity Link is an immensely powerful and wrathful god whose energy effortlessly destroys Majora and disintegrates his moon along with him. Little is actually shown about him because his appearance is so brief, but he is clearly established as one of the strongest if not the strongest character in the Zelda canon (other than maybe Demise and Hylia herself).

Demise

Ganon and Oni from Street Fighter 4 after performing a fusion

The final boss of Skyward Sword who is said to be the source of all evil beings in the Zelda verse. Fi states that he has “conquered time itself”. Throughout the game, he attempts breaching the physical plane as The Imprisoned. He is capable of conjuring storms and summoning lightning strikes. After his defeat at the hands of Link, he promises that an incarnation of his hatred would forever plague the forces of light. It is to note, however, that in the battle that took place at the end of SS Demise was not yet at full power as Girahim’s resurrection ritual was not complete, otherwise the Hero of the Skies would be much higher on this list. At full power he was able to hurt the Goddess Hylia.

The Three Golden Goddesses

The three Goddesses Din, Farore, and Nayru who created the earth and its inhabitants. After leaving the mortal plane they left behind a bit of their essence in the form of the Triforce. The Triforce, when all three pieces are together, is capable of granting one wish. Link in Skyward Sword wished for the permanent destruction of Demise (which dropped Skyloft on top of him) and in A Link to the Past he wished everyone a happy end. Ganon's wish changed the Golden Land to the Dark World.

Hylia

Hylia, the main goddess in Zelda lore who created the Three Goddesses and most of the guardian spirits in Hyrule. She created the Goddess Sword, later the Master Sword, and grants Link various stat boosts. She was reborn as a mortal in Zelda, although it seems she is able to still manifest her own consciousness to speak to Link through Goddess Statues.

So, to recap:

Fodder Tier:

Skultullas

Shadow Insects

Stalkins

(Many others not listed)

Sub-human to Peak human Tier:

Bokoblins

Hylian civilians

(Many others, see link above)

Wall level Tier:

Moblins

Gorons

Hylian Knights

Guardians

Building level Tier

Stone Talus

Lynels

Multi-City Block Tier

The Bosses

The Triforce Heroes

Zelda

Town Level Tier

Zant

Midna

Vaati

The Four Links

Island Level Tier

Girahim

Ganondorf

The Hero of the Skies

The Hero of Winds

The Hero of Twilight

Farosh

Ganon

Link (Zelda 1 and 2)

The Hero of the Past

The Hero of Time

Country Level Tier

The Divine Beasts

Calamity Ganon

The Hero of the Wild

Continent to Multi-Continent Tier

The Great Fairies

Skull Kid (Majora’s Mask)

The Four Giants

Majora

Fierce Deity Link

God Tier (earth creation and able to hurt beings on that level)

Demise

Golden Goddesses

Hylia

Well then, I think that just about wraps it up!  Let me know if you take issue with anything on this list and I will gladly discuss it with you. Also, the next Zelda game is currently in development, so check back every now and then as this list is subject to change. I am Hero’s Shade, and I’ll see you all next time!

Zelda Theory: Solving the Windmill Paradox (How Time Travel works in the Legend of Zelda)

Welcome back, everyone! I am Hero's Shade, and this time around I have decided to take on a particular mystery that has perplexed fans of Zelda ever since the release of Ocarina of Time back in 1998 (seriously, 20 years ago? God, I feel old), what is known as the Windmill Paradox, aka the Song of Storms Paradox or Music Man Paradox.

For those of you who are unfamiliar with the game, what have you been doing with your life? there is a cheerful man with a music box inside the windmill at Kakariko Village. After you pull out the Master Sword and become an adult, you find the music man furiously cranking his music box, complaining about a boy seven years ago who played a song and messed up the windmill. He plays that song, you play it back, and you memorize the Song of Storms. Then, in order to progress through the game, you must play it again in the past in order to make the windmill spin rapidly and drain the well. He hears the song, and is the same song he complains about in the future and teaches to you.

But... if Link played the song in the past after he learned it from the music man in the future, who in the past learned it from Link...and...

 

Alright, so it is likely that Nintendo's developers just put this in the game as a throwaway gag to be joked about later on. But that answer is simply unsatisfactory to me. After all, what kind of nerdy internet theorist would I be if I didn't analyze and over-complicate something that isn't meant to be given that much thought? 

In all seriousness, jokes and Easter eggs like this can become part of a series' official lore. For example, the infamous Bat Shark Repellent has become canonically an item stored in Batman and Robin's arsenal, and numerous quotes and one-shot references from Star Wars: A New Hope have become the building blocks for three prequels and entire episodes and seasons of the Clone Wars cartoons, not to mention those cartoons themselves.

So, from a lore perspective, where did the Song of Storms come from in the first place, and how did Link learn it? To answer that, we'll have to explore how time travel works in the Zelda series, so buckle up. It's going to get more complicated from here.

To start off, I will explain some of the various methods of time travel and how they differentiate  from one another.

First, we have the Ocarina of Time, which is capable of performing various magical spells via playing the right notes on it. For instance we have songs that warp Link to various locations and the aforementioned Song of Storms, which is capable of summoning strong wind, heavy rain, and lightning, although the primary function is time manipulation.

You may want to take note on how I used the phrase 'time manipulation' instead of 'time travel'. I'll get to the finer details of the latter later on, but let's say for instance Link plays the Sun's Song. The Sun's Song, as the name suggests, causes sunrise or sunset. Contrary to what... certain... websites and wikis may have you believe, this melody does not actually affect the gravitational cycles of the Earth or moon, Link is actually accelerating time to the next interval that would begin night or day. This is proven by the fact that the guard in front of Kakariko Village who keeps track of time will indicate that time has passed whenever you use the song, and while Biggoron is crafting you the two-handed weapon Biggoron's Sword you must wait a few days for him to complete it, but you can just play the Sun's Song a few times to get it right away. This is also very similar to how the Song of Double Time works in Majora's Mask.

Keep that in mind, as this is different from how he time travels works when pulling out or replacing the Master Sword from its pedestal.

There are those who use the timeline split in OoT as a reference to indicate that Link creates an alternate timeline, as well as an alternate timeline version of himself every time he withdraws or removes the Master Sword. I'm sorry to say, but they've got it all wrong.

When the Hero of Time pulled out the Master Sword, it essentially judged his worthiness and determined he would not be ready until he was older (Though Wind Waker Link wields it with no problem. I guess it didn't want to repeat the same mistake it made here by leaving a portal open and letting Ganon get the Triforce of Power. Hindsight is 20/20.), therefore Link's Spirit was sealed in the Chamber of Sages for seven years. Alternatively, Link can replace the Master Sword back in the pedestal to return his spirit seven years back into his child body.

There is no new version of Link or any new timeline being created here, it's the same Link being put into a magical coma, with his spirit and consciousness traveling back and forth between his child and adult bodies in the past and future. Now, this by no means contradicts the timeline for a multitude of reasons, but that's a whole other can of worms I don't want to open right now.

The point here I'm trying to make is that when Link transfers his spirit into his future body, everything he did as a child has already happened, since this is all the same time continuity. This is true for the Spirit Temple, where Link has to go back in time to retrieve the Silver Gauntlets and return as an adult in order to save Nabooru and complete the dungeon. In the future, you will also find the unbeatable Running Man in the tent in front of the bridge to Gerudo Valley, who you gave the Bunny Hood years ago, as well as the Skull Kid in the Lost Woods who you find playing Saria's Song that you taught to him as a child. This concept is also seen again in Twilight Princess, where you find an old opened chest. Then, you travel to the past and open it. This means in the present time, Link found it open because he already opened it in the past.

What this means is that when Link is in the future, he already played the Song of Storms and messed up the windmill, even though he hadn't traveled back and done it yet from his perspective. But doesn't that leave the question of who taught Link the song unanswered? No, actually. He learned it from the music man.

If you pay close attention to him in the past, he says that he wants to write a song inspired by the windmill, going around and around and around. Naturally, Link has a talent for imitating songs he hears. We've seen him do it before with Malon's humming and Sheik's Harp. And typically, music boxes only play one song, unless programmed to play something else.

So, there we have it! Link simply copied the notes from the music man, and the magical properties of the OoT caused it to summon a storm. And we're done! Good night, everybody!


...

Oh dear.

See, the sequel complicates things even further. Majora's Mask takes places some time after Link defeated Ganondorf and Zelda returns him to his own time to have a childhood and grow up naturally. As a child, Link ventures to find Navi and comes across the land of Termina.

A bunch of other stuff happened, but while there, he learned the Song of Storms from Flat, one of the royal Composer Brothers. Now... how could it be possible that the music man and Flat wrote the Song of Storms, and that Link only learned it after he went to Termina? Not only that, but there is also a pair of Composer Brothers that serve the Hyrule family and happen to be named Flat and Sharp, and look exactly the same.

In regards to Link learning the Song of Storms from Flat, remember, everything Link does in the past already happened seven years ago from the perspective of future Link, so child Link would still have known the Song of Storms from Flat and played it at the windmill.

It's an existing fan theory, and certainly a fascinating one. However, that doesn't answer any of the other burning questions. And to do that, we need to talk about PARALLEL UNIVERSES!

Yes, as if time travel shenanigans wasn't enough, we now can add parallel universes into this clusterfuck.

It is stated in several guidebooks that Termina is a world parallel to Hyrule, similar to the Dark World, the Twilight Realm, and Lorule. This is how identical or identical-looking characters can exist in parallel to their OoT counterparts and some of the same things can exist in both worlds, even with different origins. (The real world explanation is that the developers only had a year to finish the game and had to resort to using a lot of the same character models to cut down on time.)

So, that means that one of three things is happening here:

A, Link really did copy it from the music man in the first place and the version by the Composer Brothers is parallel to the OoT counterpart.

B, Either Link or the music man read the music notes from Sharp and Flat's gravestones in the Kakariko Graveyard for inspiration (the Sun's Song and the Song of Storms to sound very similar)

Or C, Link learned it in Termina, returned to Hyrule, and played it in the windmill, "closing the time loop", so to speak.

Now, I'll admit these theories are by no means flawless. I've mentioned before that at the end of Ocarina of Time, Zelda sends Link back to the past. And after that, Link sets out on his adventure in Majora's Mask. So... this presents another paradox.

How can Link complete his journey in Ocarina of Time if child Link doesn't learn it until the events of Majora's Mask, after Link defeated Ganondorf and left the Master Sword in the Temple of Time? And Link never using the Master Sword to travel back to his future body again (that we know of, at least) and growing up naturally after that point is what created the timeline split into the child and adult timelines (because the future Link that emerged from the Chamber of Sages after seven years technically still existed), so how could he play it in front of the music man to teach it to his future self if it's after the time split?

Well, the fact of the matter is that the music man in the future still plays it, we just have a little more insight to it now thanks to MM and other lore. Perhaps MM has nothing to do with it, in fact I doubt the idea that the sequel would give some explanation crossed their minds, since they didn't even know they'd be making a direct sequel until after the fact. But that's nothing a little retroactive continuity wouldn't fix, and all it would really take is one little reference or interview statement to make it canon.

But alas, for now, we can only speculate. It truly is a song that goes around and around and around.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to heal my brain's sorrow's.

I am Hero's Shade, and I'll see you all next time.

VS Discussion: The Anti-Debaters

Hello everyone, Hero's Shade here! Today I thought I'd whip up a quick blog page to talk about something that irks me about the VS community, and is unfortunately becoming largely more prominent lately. Yes, I know, VS debating is terrible and water is wet, news at 11.

Have you ever been to a freind's house and played a game with them, and said friend has their own set of house rules that put you at an obvious disadvantage? Well, if you can't recall being in a situation like that, let's say you're playing chess with someone. You begin the game and attempt to move a pawn forward two spaces, but your opponent tells you that because of their house rules you can only move pawns one space at the beginning of your turn. He later revises this rule when he does just that, saying you can only do it once per game. Later, you move your pawn to his side of the board to make it a queen, which would put his king in check, and he has no way of eliminating that pawn. He pulls the house rules card on you yet again saying that you can't make your pawn a queen, only a knight or a rook, and those just so happen to be the two pieces that can't put the king in check on that particular turn. At this point, it becomes clear that this player will just bend the rules in any way that would benefit him and prevent him from losing, even though it is clear that you'd be the winner in this scenario if the game was being played normally.

Now, I'm not going to knock anyone for playing games by their own house rules as long as they are discussed beforehand, but hopefully I made my analogy clear. The rule-changer in this scenario is preventing any situation where the other player would be winning by meta-gaming and cheating himself out of losing rather than simply resorting to the options already available to him and being a good sport. Or how about this, playing a fighting game where one player is using hacks and cheats to win against another player who is playing fairly. This doesn't prove that you're any more skilled than the other player, all it proves is that you can cheat and deny victory from other people who deserve it. In fact, there some situations where it hasn't worked, but that's beside the point.

It makes more sense to use a universal set of rules that anyone can work off of on hand rather than make your own and expect everyone else to follow the rules you made, yes? And that brings us back to VS debating. Debating in general is a logical exorcise. It is best done after extensive research (and I don't just mean spending ten minutes skimming wikis lmao) to compare the facts you've compiled with someone else, as well as-to an extent- the rhetoric used to present information. It is a very informative and enriching experience for those who know what they're doing.


Unfortunately, there are those who will essentially become Obi-Wan ("I have the High Ground, DON'T TRY IT!") and attempt to avoid or hand-wave information and rhetoric. I refer to these people as "Anti-debaters", because they essentially defeat the whole purpose of debating as a logical exorcise, and because they create a lot of the negative stereotypes associated with internet VS debating, which I'm sorry to say are accurate, more often than not. However, I will make an attempt to inform people of these Anti-debating tactics, as well as to purge  educate  also inform those who use them, so hopefully less people will resort to them and less people will be turned off and discouraged by this hobby.

"VS is just opinions anyway"

 

This mentality is one of main reasons I decided to write this blog, because it's one of the best examples of Anti-debating. People who say this during debates likely only say this because actual evidence presented to them goes against their pre-conceived notions of a character or series, or resort to this as a last ditch effort to declare victory in an argument.

This is also counter-intuitive and circular logic, because these people will often present a character as the irrefutable, objective winner, and when they run out of arguments (if any) will claim that it is their opinion that this character will win. If it's an opinion, by definition, it is neither irrefutable nor objective. Which... means it's still open for debate. Hypocrite that you are! Will you fight? Or will you perish like a dog?

Now, a lot of people who say that debating is opinion-based take issue with calculations. Which is fair enough, there are some calculations that can be revised or refuted. But saying all calcs are wrong or that calcs can't be applied to fiction at all is just silly. Yes, we are talking about fictional worlds that may or may not follow the same rules as ours, but most fictional universes have the same universal constants as ours, like gravity. And the very few that don't are the exception rather than the rule. For example, you won't just see people floating around when you're catching up on the Walking Dead, the fact that there's fictional elements like zombies doesn't change the fact that physics are still a thing in their world. Therefore, it only makes sense that they should also follow the same general laws of physics (which you can apply math to because anything that exerts force can be measured in kinetic energy).

Says who? This guy named Occam. He makes great razors. 

"Occam's razor (or Ockham's razor) is a principle from philosophy. Suppose there exist two explanations for an occurrence. In this case the simpler one is usually better. Another way of saying it is that the more assumptions you have to make, the more unlikely an explanation is."

" Occam's razor (also Ockham's razor or Ocham's razor; Latin: lex parsimoniae "law of parsimony") is the problem-solving principle that, when presented with competing hypothetical answers to a problem, one should select the one that makes the fewest assumptions."

My point is that there are things in fiction that you legitimately cannot argue against. Take the Greek legend The Twelve Labors of Hercules for example. The feats he performs in the story have a huge impact on the world around him, and are a driving force for the narrative in general. They happened. Your argument is invalid. The same can be said about most of fiction, like a hero defeating a villain, or a character performing a certain feat triggering a specific event to happen (say, causing a volcano to explode, resulting in a major conflict). Now, when it comes to varying versions of the story, such as if Hercules fought the Hydra alone or with his cousin or nephew, those things are subjective. But more often than not it won't be a deciding factor and there are plenty more examples and pieces of evidence that are much more blatant and concise.

The Stonewallers

This one is pretty self-explanatory, so expect this section to be short. 

These are the people who will have a list of reasons, if not one reason, why they think a character should win, and will never back down from those points or present any new information despite those reasons being repeatedly contested. Said arguments against those points will either be ignored or argued around in circles and/or buried in a sea of comments, only for the stonewaller to continue to present their points as the clincher to newcomers and lurkers. Stonewallers will also use those same points to go against anything the debaters bringing in actual evidence have to say.

Now, it is true that there are times where the information you would present is accurate and the refutations against it are wrong (for example let's say you are arguing something Mario related and somebody argues against your points using an example from the US version SMB2, which is in a dream) , and you often have to repeat yourself. But I'm talking about instances where say, people will claim Saitama will always beat anyone with one punch (I'll get to NLFs later) despite being presented examples from his own series where it took more than one punch to beat someone, and will continue to insist the idea that he always beats enemies with one punch despite being proven wrong multiple times.

This is not debating. This is the age-old children's playground argument of "nuh-uh, is too is too!"

The Hive Minds/The Yes Men

Again, self-explanatory, and you can easily see the issue with this simply by watching the video above. Hive minds and yes men are two different issues, but they do go hand in hand. 

I've been in plenty of situations where a mod on a VS site will just agree with whatever the last thing was that was posted, even if said posts are on opposing sides of the argument. Said mods would often be in charge of whatever was posted on the wiki and main page, which is concerning. There is essentially no debate, and nobody disagrees with anything, aside from outsiders who don't think the same way they do. So you have proverbial Superintendents letting metaphorical houses burn down because they were convinced the Arora Borealis is in the kitchen, despite the fact that those hamburgers are obviously grilled.

Proof by Example

There are plenty of people out there who, rather than going by generally accepted methods like feats, go by arbitrary views or concepts when it comes to certain characters and works of fiction, and Proof by Example Fallacy aka No Limits Fallacy is certainly a by-product of that.

For instance, I have argued with people (who shall remain unnamed, but if you were there you know who they are and I'm sorry for triggering the PTSD flashbacks) who believed that Psycho Mantis could convince any character to kill themselves, or that Freddy Kruegar with the Power Glove had control over any video game character, like he could just snap his fingers and kill Kratos or Asura.

And the biggest problem with this is that they believe that this is the only way to look at fictional characters, and that feats are just secondary, or that they don't matter at all. They believe these subjective concepts are the correct and accurate way and that using numbers, calcs, feats and actual examples from the series is nonsensical and silly.

Going back to what I started this with, these people essentially expect you to drop everything you knew about the characters and debating in general and perform the same mental gymnastics with them.

Me and my friends have this inside joke where you could break these peoples' minds by asking them if Ganondorf could survive a punch from Saitama, and just watch the beauty unfold.

Oh wait, silly me. Whoever wins is whichever character they're a bigger fan of.

Toxic Fanbases

Now, I will openly admit that I am an elitist. I've been doing this for about 5+ years now and have lurked and participated in various VS communities, read tons of respect threads, read plenty of comics, watched tons of TV shows (yeah I know, watching TV, so difficult), as well as written many blogs on and researched many characters. I like to think I know what I'm doing, and I believe there's nothing wrong with being proud of what you do. However, there is a line to be drawn. This should go without saying, but if you tell someone to go kill themselves or just in general act like an asshole or condescend someone the entire time they just want to have a rational conversation with you, chances are they're not going to want to hear your points. This also works conversely. Don't dismiss someone's arguments just because you think they're an elitist, try to hear them out and if they're being toxic just let the mods handle it. Just be respectful to each other. Because at that point there's no actual debate taking place and it devolves to a pissing contest. You're arguing about fake characters on the internet for fuck sake, there's no need to make it personal.

The Posers

 

That guy. You know the one. That guy who only knows memes or surface knowledge about a character and acts like an expert. That guy.

That guy who thinks Aquaman loses every fight because of Robot Chicken, yet had they actually bothered to look even a bit deeper into the character they'd know that that portrayal of the character is exclusively from a cartoon that came out 50+ years ago, and that Aquaman actually has superhuman strength, speed, and agility, can summon tidal waves, and that communicating telepathically with fish isn't a "dumb power" when you can use it to summon sharks and giant squids, not to mention prehistoric creatures and mythical figures like the Kraken.

That guy who thinks Deadpool has metafictional manipulation and can beat anyone because he's immortal, yet in the recent comics he had his deathless curse taken away, the comics clearly establish that healing factor has a limit, and Deadpool Kills the Marvel Universe is a non-canon elseworld that exists solely for the purpose of DP killing everyone, thus them being horrendously nerfed.

That guy will also continue to act like an expert despite being shut down several times by people who actually know what they're talking about.

Don't be that guy.

Conclusion

Well then, I think that just about wraps things up. Let me know if you have anything you'd like me to add or take issue with anything I said here, and I will gladly discuss with you.

I am Hero's Shade, and thanks for reading!

The Chaotically Coy Ki Condescending Kitty-Cat God: Beerus the Destroyer!

Hello, everyone! I know it's been a while since my last analysis blog, but now I'm back! Yeah, I know, I say that a lot, don't I? Well, think of it as me going into a long slumber and waking up every now and then to grace you with my presence, which brings us to our subject matter this time around...

Background

Puts on best Kyle Hebert impression
Ah-heh-hem! 

Time and time again, Earth's strongest warriors have prevailed against those who have threatened the Earth and its inhabitants. From King Piccolo to Majiin Buu, it seemed that there was nothing out there that could stop the super-warriors known as the Z-Fighters. But the likes of Goku and Vegeta have been waiting for when a being even stronger than Buu would arrive, and diligently prepared themselves for when that day would come.

But little did they know, that being would be far more powerful than anything that appeared before, even the strongest beings like Super Vegito paled in comparison to his enormous power. Only the arrival of the Super Saiyan God awakened from within Goku proved to be a worthy opponent for this being, and even still,Goku had lost. All of the planet's finest warriors were effortlessly cast aside by this seemingly unstoppable force.

"This is what happens when mortals don't share their pudding!"

This being was Lord Beerus, the God of Destruction, who had been slumbering in the far reaches of the cosmos for many years.

However, while he did challenge the Z-Fighters and won't hesitate to extinguish life and planets on a whim, this does not necessarily make him evil. Rather, he is a force of nature that exists to maintain the natural order.

While he does seem like a sociopath in the sense that he will destroy beings or planets over petty things such as losing a game or not liking food, or just finding them annoying in general, well... if you're at all familiar with Greek mythology, gods are petty like that. However, he does care about the well-being of his universe as a whole and will defend it against anyone who attempts to threaten it (including Goku at one point). He also seems to have a soft spot for Earth and it's inhabitants, as in the ending of Battle of Gods he blew up a small pile of rocks and joked "There, I destroyed earth" and has become friends with Bulma since she gives him food, the secret to winning any cat's love.

Beerus' design was based on an Egyptian hairless cat (called a Sphinx, no less), and in true catlike nature, enjoys little beyond eating and napping, and doesn't like being bothered when he's doing either. His likeness, role, and demeanor are also inspired by Anubis, the Egyptian God of Death (There are even Kali and Ganesh stand-ins in Dragonball Super, I'm just waiting for Buddha to show up for the Journey to the West and Monkey King references to come full circle). It is also revealed that there is an entire multiverse with more gods out there, 12 in total, and Beerus is the GoD of Universe 7, the one the Z-Fighters reside in.

Now, you may be thinking "How could a being that powerful and significant have existed all this time without anybody ever mentioning him?" Well, that's unfortunately what happens whenever some new plot point is introduced, such as when we discovered Goku was actually an alien. However, there is a legitimate explanation. The Supreme Kais made it a rule of thumb to keep his existence a secret so none of the universe's fighters would attempt to challenge Beerus or otherwise annoy him-especially Goku-, thus risking the universe. And while Vegeta did see Beerus on... Vegeta (the planet) standing over... Vegeta (the King), he didn't really know who he was or anything about him at the time, to him he was just some weird alien who threatened his father. Also, if you pay attention, there are actually subtle hints sprinkled throughout previous stories in Dragonball, suggesting that Toriyama had probably been planning his appearance for a while (but that's delving into fan theory territory). I'll get to those later in the Feats and Abilities sections.

In case you were wondering...

With the Battle of Gods and Resurrection F movies, Dragonball Super, and the manga, with all the inconsistencies between each of them, it's hard to discern what's canon and what isn't. Well technically speaking, all of them are. Akira Toriyama was responsible for the movies, and Dragonball Super is officially what happens in between all of them. Though this may create a lot of problems in terms of continuity given all three tell the story in different ways, for example Beerus was sleeping in Battle of Gods and Whis had to wake him up to remind him about the Super Saiyan God he prophecized, whereas in Super he was already awake, and other minor changes such as Bulma's birthday party on a cruise liner instead of on land, as well as a ton of various plot holes, etc. However, that doesn't really change the fact that Super is still canon with the movies and the series in general, and Toie and Toriyama simply aren't concerned with these plot holes and inconsistencies, they just want to make more Dragonball content. I know that sounds cynical, but isn't that pretty much the goal of every franchise?

That being said, I will be using all of them as reference material.

Powers and Abilities

Energy Manipulation/Godly Ki

Given he is a Dragonball character, Beerus can tap into a metaphysical energy source to augment his strength, durability, and speed as well as grant him flight and of course your obligatory energy blasts and balls. However, since he is a deity he uses something a little different from the standard Ki we've seen used in Dragonball. He uses something far more potent that sets him apart from other Ki users which prevents them from being able to sense his presence. Though it has no real name, this divine energy is referred to as "Godly Ki" by the characters. Tapping into this power is what allowed Goku and Vegeta to reach their Super Saiyan God forms.

Spheres of Destruction

I don't care if he is a low-tier character in FighterZ, he's fun as hell to play as

The Spheres of Destruction are highly volatile energy balls that Beerus can summon that act very similarly to Gotenks' Ghost Kamikaze Attack. Only instead of needing someone to touch them for them to detonate, he can command them to do so at any time, and can flick, kick, and bat them around without having to worry about them blowing up on him. He can summon them anywhere for a surprise attack on his opponent. They can also follow around and surround or bombard his enemies while he is attacking, like Vergil's Summoned Swords.

After-Image/Multiform

Beerus also has access to the After-Image, a technique that involves moving fast and leaving behind a projection of yourself to trick opponents (see Goku vs Cell) as well as the Multiform Technique, or at least something similar to it, which grants him "shadow clones", as it were, that can act independently. 

Cosmic Awareness

Gods of Destruction seem to have some degree of cosmic awareness that allows them to tell when they are being watched or sensed by other beings.

Sealing/BFR

As it turns out, Beerus was the one who sealed the Elder Kai in the Z-sword, meaning he has the ability to seal people inside objects. Whether this means he can only do so with certain objects or under certain circumstances is unclear, though considering Elder Kai was using this as an example of his power suggests that he can do it freely.

Martial Arts

It should go without saying at this point, but Beerus is also proficient in martial arts, trained by his attendant Whis. He has such skill and precision that he was able to take out the Z-Fighters with a pair of chopsticks, using joint manipulation and pressure points.

Pseudo Ultra Instinct

Throughout Super, Whis hints that Goku and Vegeta would show considerable improvement if they could remove the drawback of thinking and subconscious hesitation, they'd be considerably faster and unpredictable in battle. For instance, Hit can stop time for 0.1 second, though for someone as fast as him a millisecond means an entire world of difference. That, on top of a subconscious hesitation on the part of the saiyans, delays their reactions and impedes their fighting prowess by a considerable amount. Thankfully, there is a state of being known as Ultra Instinct used by angels such as Whis and Vados and subsequently taught to Beerus, which removes those limitations. Here is a video explaining Ultra Instinct in detail. In layman's terms, it's basically a more advanced, godly version of the Kaioken, only a bit different in philosophy, and without the drawback of wearing down on the user's body. The reason I referred to it as "Pseudo" Ultra Instinct in Beerus' case is because unlike Goku, he hasn't fully unleashed it and can only tap into it. (But Beerus is still so much faster and stronger than Goku that it almost doesn't matter, and in all fairness nobody has pushed him to the brink of death in order to completely awaken it.)

Hakai

And now onto the reason that the Supreme Kais and lesser so-called gods shit their pants at the mere mention of Beerus, and what gave him the nicknames 'Hakai-Shin' and 'Beerus the Destroyer'. True, his tremendous power is one reason to be feared, but there is one thing that will always cement his place as God of Destruction: the ability known as Hakai. Actually, it's referred to as Destruction in the English dub, but it doesn't quite cut it in terms of explaining what this actually is, also Hakai sounds way cooler. When Beerus uses Hakai, it completely erases the target not only on the physical, but also spiritual level. It's beyond the power of the Eternal Dragons, even Super Shenron (yes, that's a thing now, as ridiculous as it sounds) to revive the being or object that is erased. No afterlife, no resurrection, no reincarnation, you're just straight-up gone.

The only way to avoid the erasure is to create alternate timeline versions of yourself, but this must be done beforehand as the Hakai itself cannot be undone. 

"Gasp! You mean death has actual consequence in Dragonball now?"

Well, there are certain limitations, for example it cannot be used to destroy other gods. But beyond that, it can essentially be used on anyone or anything, even planets and ghosts. As Whis puts it, "Nothing is beyond Lord Beerus' power to destroy."

Feats

So, remember in that video where King Kai said Beerus "could destroy the universe if he felt like it"? Well, Dragonball is no stranger to hyperbole and villain boasting, but as it turns out, that's actually no exaggeration. 

Ah, the famous forum-busting punch, one scene that set the entire internet ablaze. 

As you can see here, Super Saiyan God Goku and Beerus' punch sent out ripples that shook most of the known universe. This of course would also apply to Beerus' durability.

Here, he fights Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta after he mastered the form and closed the gap between he and Goku. This was also after Vegeta destroyed the Hyperbolic Time Chamber from the inside, which, if you recall, is infinite space. Does that mean he has infinite destructive capacity? Well, clearly not since he still isn't strong enough to beat Beerus, so to avoid over-complicating things, we'll just call this a universal feat (recall that our universe is also described as infinite). Mah boi Veggie getting them mad gains, I'm so proud...

After he defeated Vegeta, he commends him for his efforts and states that if he were in another universe, he might be a worthy candidate for God of Destruction. As it turns out, he wasn't just offering Vegeta some solace, this statement tells us where he stands in comparison with the other gods, and the exhibition match with the other GoDs in the Tournement of Power preliminaries shows us that Beerus is one of the top tier gods in the Dragonball multiverse, if not the strongest. Also fitting that it would come down to a game of cat and mouse. Yeah, I see what you did there, TOIE.

Super Saiyan God Goku gets brutalized by Beerus. Given Goku's characterization in Super, I probably enjoy this scene way too much...

Has such control and precision with his power, he is able to destroy half a planet with a tap of his finger.

Toys with Super Saiyan 3 Goku.

Deflects attacks with one finger and dodges lightning.

We also have Beerus to thank for King Kai's planet being so small. At one time, it was roughly hundreds of times larger, but Beerus blew it up when he was salty about losing a game against King Kai, forcing him to rebuild from the leftover fragments. Remember what I said about gods being petty?

https://www.outskirtsbattledomewiki.com/index.php/8-character-profiles/292-character-profile-bills

Is MFTL based on scaling to Whis, who carried the two to King Kai's planet from Beerus' realm (which would have to sit at the edge of the known universe, as it's further away then the Supreme Kai's planet) within 22 minutes, which would yield RIDICULOUSLY high numbers (The edge of the known universe is roughly 46.5 billion lightyears away from Earth). Now, it can be argued that this was only possible through the staff, and Whis is still Beerus' superior in terms of power and speed, however he would still have to steer around celestial objects. Not to mention, this is pretty much the only speed feat we can really use for the god tiers of the verse, anything lesser they would scale to is essentially a bit feat. And with Beerus clearly being MUUUUUCH faster than the relativistic to lightspeed Z-Fighters, it's not too much of a stretch to say Beerus is MFTL. 

Weaknesses

Beerus may be one of the top tiers in his verse, but he has one of the LAAAAAAAAAAAAAMEST drawbacks ever. because Super just had to ruin something else that was quality  

If you kill all the Supreme Kais in a universe (which is basically just Shin and the Elder Kai in Universe 7's case), that universe's God of Destruction will die as well. Meaning, yes, basically any of the Z-Fighters or villains could preemptively assassinate Beerus if they felt like it.

As said before, his Hakai ability cannot be used on other gods, and it can be avoided with potent enough time manipulation. Omniking Zen-Oh also has erasure hax that are far greater and seem to supersede his, so while extremely effective, it's not the be-all-end-all.

Beerus also may be immortal, but it's more of a "lived for billions of years and continue to" immortality rather than "can't die" immortality. He can be killed, provided you're strong enough or have potent enough hax like the Omniking.

Intangibles-wise, Beerus is also extremely petty and ill-tempered, and thusly can be baited into a combat scenario.

Summary

Advantages

• Universal+ Destructive Capacity and Durability
• MFTL
• Billions of years of experience
• Martial arts training from Whis, the fastest and most powerful being in Universe 7
• Godly Ki
• Spheres of Destruction
• Afterimage and Multiform
• BFR
• Paralysis
• Erasure Hax
• His break-dancing skills are unrivaled

Disadvantages

• Can be killed by killing the Supreme Kais (though it likely won't be applied in a combat scenario)
• Hakai has some limitations
• Ill-tempered and petty, has no patience
• No match for Gohan Blanco  

Potential Opponents

 Galactus

Thematic, and even! Both are universal and MFTL. Both are purple, not technically evil but have threatened the Earth on multiple occasions forcing its heroes to fight them off, and both are cosmic beings that stand above most mortals in their respective universes. It would also be fun to see how their personalities play off each other, for example Galactus eating a planet and Beerus getting mad because it had one of his favorite foods, or something like that.

Crazy Hand

This was an idea presented by RadioactiveCaffein aka HomestuckLover, and I actually like it a lot. Master Hand created the Smash Bros. universe, and Crazy Hand is the more destructive and chaotic counterpart. Also, it's a giant disembodied hand fighting a purple anthropomorphic cat deity, so why not, dare I say, go crazy?

Anubis

I've seen Goku vs Sun Wukong, so why not pit Beerus against his mythical folklore counterpart? Maybe he gets riggity-rekt (Idk, does he? I don't know that much about Egyptian lore), but it's a neat idea.

Got any suggestions for me you think would work? Let me know in the comments below!

In the meantime, thank you all for reading, and a special thanks to LousyTactician for the amazing title idea.

And another very special thank you to ThorG1058, who made me the trailer for next time:

The Star Wars Expanded Universe and how it's Technically Still Canon

Welcome back, everyone! I return with another Star Wars related blog, this time not relating to opinions regarding the movies, but rather bringing to light certain questions regarding the current canon and me attempting to answer them.

The Star Wars Expanded Universe, otherwise known as the Legends Canon, refers to every piece of media, be it in the form of books, animated movies, comics or video games that existed outside of the main six movies up until late 2012. These stories covered essentially everything that the six movies couldn't, covering several millennia of Star Wars history, establishing entire stories and races outside of the Skywalker saga, and providing a continuation of the story showing what happened after the events of Return of the Jedi, covering several generations of Skywalker descendants.

For decades, this is what the fans saw as what happened outside of the movies, and for many, that continuity, containing hundreds of books and comics creating an established timeline, was destroyed by Disney, much to their dismay. However, one needs only pay close attention to the finer details to see that all is not lost. There are actually tons of cameos, references, and namedrops in Disney's new canon that allude to the Legends Canon, suggesting that at the very least several key events in the story still happen and a few significant characters and themes from it still exist, if not all or most. Let's take a look, shall we?

The New Jedi Order

In the Legends Canon, Luke Skywalker, after the Battle of Endor and defeat of the Emperor and Darth Vader, began searching for old Jedi temples and studied their artifacts, or at least what remained of it after the Empire destroyed many of it. He learned of the Old Republic through ancient documentations and Holocrons, even traveling to Sith planets to learn their history and philosophy. With this gathered knowledge, along with the teachings he previously received from Obi-Wan and Yoda, he formed the New Jedi Order to pass down his knowledge to other force sensitives across the galaxy.

Recall that in The Force Awakens, it is said that Luke, sometime between the events of RotJ and TFA, went looking for the old Jedi temples. Han even mentions the New Jedi Order by name.

EU Abilities Used in Episode 7 and 8

(Section contains spoilers for TLJ)

The EU also established a lot of new imaginative force abilities that the movies did not portray. One would imagine that there would be more to the force than sensing, moving objects, and mind tricks, and they would be right. Far more advanced techniques include Jedi Spacefolding, imprinting memories into objects and people (which is theorized to have been used on Luke's blue lightsaber, hence why Rey has the visions when she finds it), and Force Projection.

Force Projection, as the name suggests, is an ability that allows its user to project oneself to another location, enabling them to interact with objects as if they were there. More powerful users of this ability can manifest physical objects or weapons such as lightsabers that are seemingly as effective as real ones. The user can even move the projection to other places instantaneously to appear as they they are teleporting, or cause the projection to phase through solid objects or become intangible. Yes, contrary to popular belief Luke's "new" ability used towards the end of The Last Jedi is not new at all, and was used quite frequently by Luke himself in the Legends Canon.

 

Greivous's Coughing in Revenge of the Sith

You may recall that before Episode III: Revenge of the Sith, Cartoon Network featured an animated miniseries tie-in to promote the movie: Clone Wars. In this animated series, Mace Windu uses Force Crush (another EU ability) on Greivous, causing his chest to collapse. As a result, in Episode III General Greivous has a profuse cough, and this moment in Clone Wars is the official reason as to why. Because this was long before Disney's interference in the Star Wars franchise, Clone Wars is considered part of the Legends Canon. Since Greivous's coughing is clearly a result of Mace Windu's Force Crush, and because Revenge of the Sith is one of the numbered movies that Disney is still following the continuity of, this cements at least some events of the EU in Disney's continuity long before they bought the rights.

Darth Revan and Darth Bane in Star Wars: The Clone Wars

Reminder that The Clone Wars and Star Wars Rebels are part of the Disney Canon, since the show aired in 2014, after the rights were handed over to Disney, and characters from both have appeared in Disney Canon movies, such as Saw Gerrera's appearance in Rogue One.

Now that we got that out of the way, allow me to explain the significance of these appearances. Revan and Darth Bane are characters who appeared in the Knights of the Old Republic video games. Roughly 4000 years before the original trilogy, the Sith were a tribal race that killed one another for power, creating constant in-fighting and near-extinction of the race. Revan was one of the first Jedi to join the Sith, and while there introduced Jedi philosophy and established order to the once violent and barbaric Sith race, saving them from dying out. Despite being called Darth Revan, he considered himself neither Jedi nor Sith, and was one of the first to weild the rare purple lightsaber, which signified its user's balance in light and dark sides, and dual-weilded it along with a red Sith saber. He recorded his wisdom into a holocron, which was many millenia later possessed by Palpatine, who thanks to heeding Revan's teachings lead an Empire that was successful for twenty plus years. His philosophy was adopted by many future Sith as well as the Grey Jedi (which is what Ahsoka became in Rebels) and become the front-runner for modern Sith philosophy and the Rule of Two established by Darth Bane. 

This is where Bane expanded on Revan's knowledge, and where the Sith became the true antithesis to the Jedi. Bane believed that it was the right of the strong to exact their power over the weak, that peace is an illusion, and that "evil" was term used by the weak to discredit the actions of the strong as they exerted their rightful dominance. He also conceived the Rule of Two, a rule of thumb for Sith masters to never take more than one apprentice at a time. He also advised that an apprentice would always seek to destroy their master. If they succeed, they become the new Sith master. If they fail, the master further exerts his dominance, or at least until he is eventually replaced or killed. Bane believed that this was the best way to strengthen and preserve the Sith way, and is referenced by Yoda at the end of The Phantom Menace. It also foreshadows Vader killing the Emperor in Return of the Jedi.  

Now, Darth Bane in The Clone Wars doesn't necessarily canonize all of KOTOR, but establishing him as an important historical figure in the Star Wars saga in the Disney canon does have a lot of implications that come along with it, and his dialogue with Yoda in this scene does allude to some events, albeit vaguely. Also, what appears to be Darth Revan, does appear in the same episode, but he's only on screen for like two seconds and not nearly made up to be as big a deal as Darth Bane.

However...

Darth Revan does make a legitimate appearance in the series... as a deleted scene. It was removed because it was decided that it would make no sense for Sith to appear before The Son to offer him guidance since The Son was basically the dark side itself. But this doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't exist in the Star Wars Disney canon, only not in this scene, and it was a plan by the Clone Wars team, including George Lucas himself, to establish Revan and Bane in the series rather early on.

And yes, that was Mark Hamill voicing Darth Bane. I'll let you bask in that awesomeness for a second.

Oh, speaking of The Ones in The Clone Wars...

The Ones in canon

 Yeah, I failed to mention that The Clone Wars is a GOLD MINE of EU content, and it would be impossible to go over all of them in such a short time. But The Ones and Darth Bane are definitely the biggest inclusions.

In the Clone Wars episodes, Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Ahsoka encounter The Ones, physical manifestations of the aspects of the Force. The Daughter represents the light side, The Son the dark side, and the Father the balance between the two.

In the EU, Luke encounters them roughly fifty years later, after one becomes added to the family of The Ones, Abeloth the Mother. Where the Father represents balance and unification between two forces, Abeloth represents the chaos, schism, and constant war between the two. Luke gathers every force sensitive he can to warn them and prepare for the threat of Abeloth, even enlisting the help of Sith. It was this unification of the dark side and the light, along with the dagger seen in The Clone Wars that was used to kill the Father in the episode, that subdued Abeloth and ensured the future of both Jedi and Sith, and perhaps the universe itself.

The Downed Star Destroyers on Jakku

There is a book called The Legends of Luke Skywalker featuring several crew members sharing stories about Luke Skywalker, similar in a way to the Batman the Animated Series episode, Almost Got 'im. In one of these stories, after viewing a Wanted hologram of Luke and experiencing strange visions, an Imperial officer on board a Star Destroyer felt the entire ship being pulled down to the surface of Jakku, as if by "a giant invisible hand". It is implied that this is the same ship seen in The Force Awakens.

Boba Fett is Still Alive

The digestion process of a Sarlac takes over 1000 years (with the swallowed-whole prey being kept alive for part of it), and Boba Fett's Mandalorian armor would give him more than enough protection. This means that he isn't dead as of his last appearance in Return of the Jedi after Han Solo knocked him into the Sarlac, and should canonically still be alive.

In the EU, he cuts himself out to fight another day. This isn't entirely out of the question, since Boba would still be alive even now. The LucasFilm Story Group refers to him as "Shrodinger's Fett", and that he is "simultaneously both dead and alive" in the sense that he's kind of set off to the side for now until a story calls for him to be brought back, if at all. That's no confirmation that all his stories are canon, but they do consider the possibility.

EU Easter Eggs in The Last Jedi

There were TONS of easter eggs and nods to the Expanded Universe in TLJ if one pays enough attention, included but not limited to Han Solo's golden dice he used to win the Millenium Falcon in a Legends comic (which appeared breifly in A New Hope and will appear again no doubt in the Han Solo movie) and references to The Old Republic, such as a lightsaber believed to have belonged to Darth Revan.

The 30-year gap

There is 30 years worth of time in between RotJ and TFA. This gives ample amount of time for the Yuuzhan Vong, Luke hooking up with Mara Jade, and all the aforementioned stories to occur. Of course, this may never be confirmed by Disney, and there are conflicting stories such as how Kyber crystals get their color and Luke's descendants, though they still could exist, it's just that Disney doesn't want to focus on them right now and would rather continue forward with the new characters. With multiple canon sources so consistently pulling from the EU, it's only a matter of time before the main movies begin focusing on stories from them, so we may yet still see an appearance from Mara Jade, Luke's kids, Jacen Solo, or even a Boba Fett or Cade Skywalker movie at some point.

Sure, Disney did do some retconning, but it was mostly the finer details of the Legacy of the Force story arc that was tweaked, certainly not the complete eradication of an entire continuity that the fans viewed it as. I see the new movies as simply newer additions to an already expansive and immersive universe, and I am intrigued to see what we get next.

I am Hero's Shade and I will see you all next time.

A Star Wars: Last Jedi Discussion- How the Internet Ruins Opinions

Wow, what a great movie The Last Jedi was! I can't wait to discuss my thoughts about the film with the fine fellows of the internet!

Oh, goddammit, internet!

Let me ask all of you a question. Does it ever seem like people on the web hate things just for the sake of hating them? I mean, I get that there will always be legitimate things to criticize, but people always take it overboard. Either it's the worst, most abominable creation to exist, or it's God's infallible gift to mankind, no in between. 

Now, I may seem hypocritical here because I often got on a good friend of mine's case for enjoying Batman vs Superman and I would always scrutinize it whenever it got brought up, rather than just passively discussing it and being accepting of her opinions. I was so concerned with all the negatives that I overlooked all of the positives about the movie. It had some stunning visuals and choreography, excellent costume design, and near-perfect casting choices. Sure, it had a lot of problems, but it's been over a year and I'm satisfied with how Wonder Woman and Justice League turned out, so I'm so over being upset about something so inconsequential as opinions about a movie.

And after my experience with The Last Jedi, with me having a great time and everyone else seemingly universally hating it (besides me and my friends who know better), I can definitely sympathize. I thought it was a fantastic movie. There were unexpected twists and fake-outs at every turn, the acting was amazing, and it's not your typical Star Wars movie, with it still having plenty of satisfying nods for long-time fans. It even had some Easter eggs and homages to the Expanded Universe.

Now, I may be biased, because I was going through a tough time struggling with depression, so I related with Luke for the entire movie. Seeing him renew his old self again and kick all kinds of ass in his own Luke Skywalker way felt so good, and there were plenty of inspiring moments and quotes in this movie that really helped me.

But at the same time, I feel I was still less biased than the vast majority. I actively avoided everything I could about this movie until I saw it. I wanted to go in with a fresh mind and no expectations or pre-concieved notions whatsoever. And as a result, I enjoyed it. 

I feel as though whenever a new Star Wars movie comes out, people will always hold it to the standards of the original, and more often than not end up dissapointed. But I think what people really remember is what they felt as children when watching it for the first time. Sure, this movie has a lot of problems, but guess what? So did A New Hope. The pacing was slow and there was more time talking with the droids than there was actual Star Wars, but that doesn't mean it can't be enjoyed. Though at the same time, it is sort of over-romanticized. There's nothing wrong with nostalgia, and those are good movies, but let's not pretend they're perfect. As Stan Lee once said, "Every comic book is somebody's first comic" just as every movie is someone's first movie. You can capture that same magic that you felt with your first experience if you simply go in with an open mind.

Second, I tend to avoid reviews and comments for movies nowadays because there seems to be a hivemind mentality with opinions about any new form of media. People read reviews and act like they know everything about a movie without even seeing it. People have one opinion about something, they see a video, and their opinion conforms to match the reviewer. People love something, they see a review, and then they hate it. People are dumb.

Go home internet, you're drunk.

Just give it ten years until TLJ becomes so hated that it becomes underrated and people decide they like it now, just like the prequels. In the meantime, I'll be over here enjoying myself.

I am Hero's Shade and I will see you all next time.